Legality and/or morality of geoblocking

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#1475429 20-Jan-2016 14:32

tdgeek:

Does Farmers have the rights to Levi's?

Farmers is just where I would buy them But there is a NZ licensed company who has the rights to import Levis (whose name I don't know). Amazon specifically do not ship Levis to NZ because Levis have an agreement with that NZ importer. But they will ship to the YouShop US address and NZ Govt's YouShop service will deliver them to me. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just the facts.

tdgeek:

If they did then Amazon is in breach, and in all likelihood they would not ship to certain destinations. Even if they were in breach, Youshop isn't relevant that's just one of many costs in running a business. Shipping. Would you also blame blame SX Cable for MegaUploads copyriight file transfers?

Physical shipping is just one cost of delivery, but there are many other delivery costs that are common between physical importers and digital entertainment companies. e.g. staff, marketing, IT hardware etc. So Netflix US + UnlockUS can deliver me Breaking Bad cheaper than Sky NZ. In the Same way Amazon US + You Shop can deliver me the Levi's cheaper than NZ Importer + Farmers.

Again, I'm not saying these services are right or wrong. But to be consistent, it seems a stretch to provide and profit from YouShop and at the same time say geo-unblocking is illegal.

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#1475437 20-Jan-2016 14:41

Earbanean:

But to be consistent, it seems a stretch to provide and profit from YouShop and at the same time say geo-unblocking is illegal.

What do you suggest? Youshop opening every parcel? SX Cable inspecting every file? I feel its a big stretch to implicate the Govt in illicit activities by way of your example.

The LTA allowing those with arrest warrants to use the roads?

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#1475442 20-Jan-2016 14:44

Except that the primary reason for YouShop's existence is to get around shipping restrictions. The government is arguing that MegaUpload's primary reason for existence was to facilitate copying, even though it had plenty of legitimate uses. So, again... You can't have it both ways!

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#1475499 20-Jan-2016 15:50

SaltyNZ:
Except that the primary reason for YouShop's existence is to get around shipping restrictions. The government is arguing that MegaUpload's primary reason for existence was to facilitate copying, even though it had plenty of legitimate uses. So, again... You can't have it both ways!

You could wiretap YouShop executives on September 19th and wait until one of them says "arr we are like modern day smugglers arr" then call in the helicopters. But only when they visit New Zealand for some reason...

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#1475510 20-Jan-2016 15:59

SaltyNZ:

Except that the primary reason for YouShop's existence is to get around shipping restrictions. The government is arguing that MegaUpload's primary reason for existence was to facilitate copying, even though it had plenty of legitimate uses. So, again... You can't have it both ways!

To correct that, to cater for those that do not ship to NZ or internationally. Do you really think the Govt sat down with the NZ Post execs, to hash out a business arm that is solely there to facilitate breaking of T+C's and/or licensing contracts between overseas companies? Really?

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#1475562 20-Jan-2016 16:58

No, of course I don't. But since since some people here are being all legalistic and saying that if it isn't offered to you in NZ then you should just go without, then it is in fact a worthwhile comparison. Why is a movie so special I shouldn't be allowed to pay to stream it outside the 'allowed' region, but it's ok to buy a pair of Levi's? Jeans and movies aren't the same, sure, but what is the difference that makes one ok but the other not?

I submit that that there isn't one, and what's ok for one is ok for the other.

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#1475570 20-Jan-2016 17:08

Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#1475571 20-Jan-2016 17:11

SaltyNZ: No, of course I don't. But since since some people here are being all legalistic and saying that if it isn't offered to you in NZ then you should just go without, then it is in fact a worthwhile comparison. Why is a movie so special I shouldn't be allowed to pay to stream it outside the 'allowed' region, but it's ok to buy a pair of Levi's? Jeans and movies aren't the same, sure, but what is the difference that makes one ok but the other not?

I submit that that there isn't one, and what's ok for one is ok for the other.

As is quoted on many FAQ at streaming sites, its down to rights issues. Which are set by the content owner, as we would have to assume, they are being paid by another media playing source or sources. I don't have any issue with being in a world of no rights, therefore globalise all media. The issue is overall revenue. Every provider pays rights for content. Some may be large payments some will be quite small, as in older content thats been through the high value on day one, such as theatres, to boxed sets, to Pay TV, to FTA TV, to streaming sites. I assume this is why NF content is generally not new, but its large. So, lets have anyone buy rights at a lower value, as its paid by many more media playing companies. The goal would be that these would need to equate to current revenues. Everyone's happy. There might be a mass proliferation of streaming sites, thats fine.

Levi;s is different, I doubt that the licensee pays Levi gob smacks of cash to be the licensee. But I'd wager that content owners get paid well to cover the production costs. So we all pay for rights spread across any media player that wants the content. Seems that will solve the issue. Globalisation, no restrictions.

NonprayingMantis

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#1475576 20-Jan-2016 17:18

MikeB4:
Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

It has not.

That was the assumption made by slingshots lawyer, (and clearly sky etc had lawyers that felt they could argue this opposite) but until a judge declares one way or the other the matter is very much undecided.

sultanoswing

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#1475590 20-Jan-2016 17:42

NonprayingMantis:
MikeB4:
Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

It has not.

That was the assumption made by slingshots lawyer, (and clearly sky etc had lawyers that felt they could argue this opposite) but until a judge declares one way or the other the matter is very much undecided.

That ain't no thang. Lawyers always feel they can argue the opposite. You got cash, they'll happily argue black is white and up is down all day long.

MikeB4

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#1475603 20-Jan-2016 18:07

sultanoswing:
NonprayingMantis:
MikeB4:
Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

It has not.

That was the assumption made by slingshots lawyer, (and clearly sky etc had lawyers that felt they could argue this opposite) but until a judge declares one way or the other the matter is very much undecided.

That ain't no thang. Lawyers always feel they can argue the opposite. You got cash, they'll happily argue black is white and up is down all day long.

It is a thing, the parallel importing question is pivotal to this and why it should be confirmed in Court.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1475607 20-Jan-2016 18:12

MikeB4:
sultanoswing:
NonprayingMantis:
MikeB4:
Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

It has not.

That was the assumption made by slingshots lawyer, (and clearly sky etc had lawyers that felt they could argue this opposite) but until a judge declares one way or the other the matter is very much undecided.

That ain't no thang. Lawyers always feel they can argue the opposite. You got cash, they'll happily argue black is white and up is down all day long.

It is a thing, the parallel importing question is pivotal to this and why it should be confirmed in Court.

Just to clarify, my "ain't no thang" was limited to the value of having a lawyer who says what you pay them to say in term of merits of an argument ie not much.

The case itself is (was) of extraordinary interest.

NonprayingMantis

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#1475608 20-Jan-2016 18:23

sultanoswing:
NonprayingMantis:
MikeB4:
Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

It has not.

That was the assumption made by slingshots lawyer, (and clearly sky etc had lawyers that felt they could argue this opposite) but until a judge declares one way or the other the matter is very much undecided.

That ain't no thang. Lawyers always feel they can argue the opposite. You got cash, they'll happily argue black is white and up is down all day long.

That's a very common misconception of how lawyers work - based probably on TV shows.

sultanoswing

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#1475619 20-Jan-2016 18:48

NonprayingMantis:
sultanoswing:
NonprayingMantis:
MikeB4:
Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

It has not.

That was the assumption made by slingshots lawyer, (and clearly sky etc had lawyers that felt they could argue this opposite) but until a judge declares one way or the other the matter is very much undecided.

That ain't no thang. Lawyers always feel they can argue the opposite. You got cash, they'll happily argue black is white and up is down all day long.

That's a very common misconception of how lawyers work - based probably on TV shows.

You see? Black is white, my friend.

MikeB4

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#1475626 20-Jan-2016 18:54

sultanoswing:
NonprayingMantis:
sultanoswing:
NonprayingMantis:
MikeB4:
Has it ever been confirmed in court that accessing electronic content from another geographic locale is parallel importing?

It has not.

That was the assumption made by slingshots lawyer, (and clearly sky etc had lawyers that felt they could argue this opposite) but until a judge declares one way or the other the matter is very much undecided.

That ain't no thang. Lawyers always feel they can argue the opposite. You got cash, they'll happily argue black is white and up is down all day long.

That's a very common misconception of how lawyers work - based probably on TV shows.

You see? Black is white, my friend.

The lawyers I have dealt with over years are self thinkers and don't need others to do it for them. They also follow the law, they are officers of the court.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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