Sky outbid for EPL rights (Premier League Pass discussion)

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18 posts

Geek

#904970 30-Sep-2013 10:57

Hi,

Not impressed with PLP so far, qaulity ranges from average to poor, Choppy frame rate, pixelated crowds etc, this changes from time to time.

My speed is good, not sure what else i can do regarding this, as you cannot polish a Turd.

PLP need to sort this out, i will requesting a refund, any other way to watch Premiership in good quality other than SKY?

Benoire

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#904976 30-Sep-2013 11:03

Only other way really is online streams, I was using Al Jazeera Sport as it has the entire EPL at 4200kbps. Unfortunately it has Andy Gray but you can't have everything good. Uses a 13 hour timeshiftable stream but I'm not sure about highlights. You need a smart DNS to connect though.

dwl

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#905087 30-Sep-2013 13:39

StarBlazer: The Man U game on the other hand was terrible (the picture and the quality on the pitch) - it was like it was recorded on "I Can Animate". Continuous flow of missed frames throughout the match - resolution was good, just very poor encoding. It was like watching at 15fps and the hover over the speed showed I had a 3000kbps feed.

The quality of parts of this game also looked bad to me but it was the variability that was even more confusing. If I watch the video in slow motion there are times when the frames nicely follow each other, with reasonable resolution and even motion spacing, but on the fly it will then change to a sequence of 1,2,3,4,pause,5,6,7,8,pause and so on. The changes might have been due to moving to a different motion algorithm but whatever the reason it doesn't look good.

When Tim Martin said "The scrutiny is massive. We have to give sales, feedback, quality of service. They haven't voiced any concerns and are really excited." I wonder how this video quality issue could be conveyed. The stats from the streaming service possibly look fine (e.g. dropped frames, rates achieved) but video quality metrics, with the quality changing so much in a game, are a lot harder to gather.

Perhaps Tim Martin is correct when he says a key trend is "Everyone says screens are getting bigger, but that's not what I see. I see them getting smaller - iPhones, iPads. More portable devices will change how people watch stuff.". Maybe many viewers aren't trying to watch on larger screens where these quality issues become more obvious.

insane

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#905224 30-Sep-2013 16:31

dwl: ....

Perhaps Tim Martin is correct when he says a key trend is "Everyone says screens are getting bigger, but that's not what I see. I see them getting smaller - iPhones, iPads. More portable devices will change how people watch stuff.". Maybe many viewers aren't trying to watch on larger screens where these quality issues become more obvious.

I normally watch PLP on my tablet using the 1600kbps stream and it's not too bad at all. Watching the same stream on my 4" phone and it looks REALLY nice! On my 24" Monitor the 3000kbps stream is OK, but on the TV it looks very average and the jerky motion stands out more.

It's a shame they seem to need Telecom to upgrade their Akamai clusters/connectivity before offering a faster stream, one would hope they offer the stream now so that those who can get it will benefit, and the others can remain on 3000kbps.

paintballdan

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#905233 30-Sep-2013 16:56

expression: Reading through the NZ Herald article posted above, a few interesting points:

- "We know 85 per cent of our customers use the highest rate of 3000Kpbs, accounting for 70 per cent of all hours watched That shows people can take a higher-quality feed. We always said if the demand was there, we would do it. There are challenges but we are working closely with Telecom ... to have a 4500Kpbs rate available this season. It's a big cost but we won't pass that on to customers."

- "Is the English Premier League happy with you? We report to MP & Silva, the rights holders, every month. They are very tight with the EPL. The scrutiny is massive. We have to give sales, feedback, quality of service. They haven't voiced any concerns and are really excited. Compared to the figures supplied by Sky, viewership is up slightly."

I find Tim Martin's attitude in the article intensely irritating. He's now putting his hands up to knowing about blocky, jittery picture quality from the start but I've been in contact with their customer services several times since August about picture quality and they were always focussing on things that may be wrong at my end: internet connection, computer, router, browser etc. There was never once a mention of any possible issues with the quality of the stream they were sending out. Even in admitting this, he is keen to blame everything and everyone apart from PLP. it's the Premier League and Neulion, it's old routers or ADSL copper wires. My download speeds are 11-12 Mbps and my old copper wires work well enough to give me crystal clear picture quality when I stream HD BBC programs through iplayer or content through Netflix or Hulu using Global Mode. I invested in a new router a couple of months ago too. He even admits that the picture would go pixilated and sh1tty when he was using a standard ADSL connection so is essentially saying that the stream they're putting out is unsuitable for the majority of NZ households.

There's also a sly reference in there to people watching content more on ipads, iphones etc. This is convenient when you're on the road but why on earth would you chose to watch a whole game on an iphone or ipad at home when you have a perfectly good tv? I have a 42" tv hooked up to a mac mini and a great sound system. I subscribed to PLP to watch through this. i'm having to watch games on the ipad now where the quality is generally fine but this is definitely not what I signed up for. Apart from being at the game, there's nothing like watching it on a large screen.

I'm still waiting for this much improved, non jittery picture. I've just tried to watch the Liverpool game through my tv and the picture quality is as crap as ever. Not sure what they did, if anything at all, but it has made no difference to me. I also wonder if the 80% of people watching at 3000 Kbps are getting a decent picture. I doubt it.

The only remotely useful thing I read in the interview was that he seems to get genuinely irritated by people being rude about the service on twitter or by email. i've been extremely polite up to now but will make a point of cranking up the volume when I next have cause to complain, can't imagine that'll be too far away. I doubt the irritation he feels on reading my expletive riddled emails will be close to the irritation I feel when trying to watch a game with his shoddy service.

schmichael

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#905244 30-Sep-2013 17:13

I heartily concur with everything paintballdan said.

As i have stated many times, my biggest beef is that I have a 2 large HDTV's in the house that I cannot use to watch footy. The service is unacceptable. It is so bad that I didn't even bother to watch any games yesterday on PLP, I watched them delayed on Sky instead.

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insane

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#905268 30-Sep-2013 18:02

Just tried to view PLP from work, granted our IP space is registered as being in AU, but still thought the page I ended up to was rather interesting.

http://www.premierleaguepass.com/plp/georestricted.htm

spiglord

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#905322 30-Sep-2013 19:14

So if you are unhappy with the presentation of the Premier League via PLP in New Zealand, then why not cut out the middleman and sent your complaints directly to MP & Silva on info@mpsilva.com

Lets see what Tim Martin says the next time he talks to MP & Silva if they are getting direct feedback from their end users....

Kim587

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#905362 30-Sep-2013 19:54

I get a little bit more frustrated with Tim Martin every time I hear him speak. Sure, it's fun being able to use those devices in bed to watch the premier league, but I'm getting bored of him telling us that screens are getting smaller and that watching games on a tablet is the way to go. He speaks like someone who wants to educate us all on how we should enjoy our viewing, as opposed to someone who wants to tailor his product to the needs of his customers.
The improvements he was hoping for in the 'jittery' wide pans don't seem to have happened either, I watched the Arsenal game yesterday in my laptop and wasn't impressed. But luckily the iPad app works well so at least I can carry on watching on that.

paintballdan

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#905419 30-Sep-2013 22:04

spiglord: So if you are unhappy with the presentation of the Premier League via PLP in New Zealand, then why not cut out the middleman and sent your complaints directly to MP & Silva on info@mpsilva.com

Lets see what Tim Martin says the next time he talks to MP & Silva if they are getting direct feedback from their end users....

Good idea, email sent.

NonprayingMantis

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#905529 1-Oct-2013 09:18

paintballdan:
expression: Reading through the NZ Herald article posted above, a few interesting points:

- "We know 85 per cent of our customers use the highest rate of 3000Kpbs, accounting for 70 per cent of all hours watched That shows people can take a higher-quality feed. We always said if the demand was there, we would do it. There are challenges but we are working closely with Telecom ... to have a 4500Kpbs rate available this season. It's a big cost but we won't pass that on to customers."

- "Is the English Premier League happy with you? We report to MP & Silva, the rights holders, every month. They are very tight with the EPL. The scrutiny is massive. We have to give sales, feedback, quality of service. They haven't voiced any concerns and are really excited. Compared to the figures supplied by Sky, viewership is up slightly."

I find Tim Martin's attitude in the article intensely irritating. He's now putting his hands up to knowing about blocky, jittery picture quality from the start but I've been in contact with their customer services several times since August about picture quality and they were always focussing on things that may be wrong at my end: internet connection, computer, router, browser etc. There was never once a mention of any possible issues with the quality of the stream they were sending out. Even in admitting this, he is keen to blame everything and everyone apart from PLP. it's the Premier League and Neulion, it's old routers or ADSL copper wires. My download speeds are 11-12 Mbps and my old copper wires work well enough to give me crystal clear picture quality when I stream HD BBC programs through iplayer or content through Netflix or Hulu using Global Mode. I invested in a new router a couple of months ago too. He even admits that the picture would go pixilated and sh1tty when he was using a standard ADSL connection so is essentially saying that the stream they're putting out is unsuitable for the majority of NZ households.

There's also a sly reference in there to people watching content more on ipads, iphones etc. This is convenient when you're on the road but why on earth would you chose to watch a whole game on an iphone or ipad at home when you have a perfectly good tv? I have a 42" tv hooked up to a mac mini and a great sound system. I subscribed to PLP to watch through this. i'm having to watch games on the ipad now where the quality is generally fine but this is definitely not what I signed up for. Apart from being at the game, there's nothing like watching it on a large screen.

I'm still waiting for this much improved, non jittery picture. I've just tried to watch the Liverpool game through my tv and the picture quality is as crap as ever. Not sure what they did, if anything at all, but it has made no difference to me. I also wonder if the 80% of people watching at 3000 Kbps are getting a decent picture. I doubt it.

The only remotely useful thing I read in the interview was that he seems to get genuinely irritated by people being rude about the service on twitter or by email. i've been extremely polite up to now but will make a point of cranking up the volume when I next have cause to complain, can't imagine that'll be too far away. I doubt the irritation he feels on reading my expletive riddled emails will be close to the irritation I feel when trying to watch a game with his shoddy service.

Are you switching off global mode when using PLP? My understanding of global mode is that it bypasses any locally cached content, so your experience of stuff that should be coming of Akamai will be impacted if you do that.

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Jas777

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#905545 1-Oct-2013 09:49

Part of the problem as I see it is that the company they are using provides services in the US that are designed mostly for the phone, tablet, ipad etc market as most people who watch the games on big TVs are doing so from cable or FTA channels.

And in cases where the viewer is in a different city to their home team they watch on thru channels such as Directv or NFL season pass so still get the cable/terrestrial view not the online view.

Thus NeuLion service looks much better on smaller devices.

Benoire

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#905549 1-Oct-2013 09:54

And what happens if you don't have an I device?! The stream to my tablet is locked at 1600kbps and the browser approach produced terrible results on my TV.

I'm simply horrified that they have managed to butcher the sports quality by moving away from traditional broadcasting methods. This has shown that there are too many variables for consistant internet based tv at the moment. At the most, the previous provider had Atmospheric conditions as their worst enemy, and that hardly affected me.

Kim587

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#905601 1-Oct-2013 10:44

Well I caught the tail end of the Everton game this morning and it did look a lot smoother than what I've experienced previously, so maybe they have managed to sort something out. It would've been nice if they had mentioned it a bit earlier though, I think most people are willing to be forgiving about tech faults as long as they know the provider is aware of the issue and is trying to solve it.

Handsomedan

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#905736 1-Oct-2013 14:11

Kim587: Well I caught the tail end of the Everton game this morning and it did look a lot smoother than what I've experienced previously, so maybe they have managed to sort something out.

I'd say that the demand was next to nil, as it was a midweek game, with no mega-profile team involved.

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