Sky outbid for EPL rights (Premier League Pass discussion)

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25 posts

Geek

#1109977 17-Aug-2014 15:46

spiglord: I watched the West Ham v Spurs game on the TV via AppleTV & the iPad. Worked as good as it did last season, reasonably solid stream but the quality is still not anywhere near HD, with that distinctive 'judder' & dropped frames.

Tried to watch the other games on the PC via Chrome and it was unwatchable...!! Do PLP do any QA testing...? I strongly doubt it.......

- Spig

Why didn't you just watch it live in HD on channel 1?

insane

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#1110007 17-Aug-2014 18:04

Does anyone know what determines the stream quality Android devices are able to stream at?

My iPad Gen 1 is able to stream at 3000kbps without issues, my equally dated Acer Iconia A501 Tablet shows options up to 1600kbps. My Samsung Galaxy S5 and Amazon fire TV which are by far the most grunty devices only have up to a 1200kbps option.

I've loaded the .APK files from the Acer and S5 onto my Amazon Fire TV both versions only have a 1200kbps option so some hardware test must be getting performed... would love to somehow bypass it to get a higher quality stream.

dwl

371 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1110011 17-Aug-2014 18:16

Benoire: Browser viewing in my opinion is the worst way to deliver content as each browser does things differently and even on a machine, the peculiarities can often change the performance. PLP should have released applications rather than using browsers in my opinion.

I agree. What now seems to also be shown for Chrome is that what previously worked on a slightly older version of a browser / flash is now broken. Based on the June stats here (browser stats) Chrome usage is now over double the next highest (Firefox) so this should be a really major deal for the service providers and hopefully an update is ready very soon.

474742: About the stuttering. (Not the chrome issue)
To me it looks slightly better than last season. Maybe its the 30fps this year vs 25fps last year?
However it's obviously far from perfect.
Don't know much abut streaming video, but wouldn't doubling the frame rate at the expense of definition make for a better viewing experience?
So, kinda half the pixels at 60fps compared to 4500kps at 30fps?

I really doubt that the stuttering being observed is at the high frame rates mentioned and I expect that the stuttering is at rate that is a fraction of the frame rate (e.g. maybe 5 frames then a pause). The Arsenal player can provide smooth motion at 25 fps. The use of 60 fps is to satisfy a niche market like if you want to slow motion the hockey and watch the puck in more detail. High frame rates might be an improvement for a select few but something else has to give and I don't think there is enough bandwidth.

474742

25 posts

Geek

#1110027 17-Aug-2014 18:46

Good reply, yes its clearly less than 30fps, it's especially noticeable when the ball is crossed.
But why would it be? it buffers for 1 minute, so why would bandwidth be an issue?

invisibleman18

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#1110037 17-Aug-2014 19:03

Watched the start of the Man United game last night before bed and it looked pretty bad - from speaking to others who watched that game it sounds like it was bad for most people so there must have been some issues with that game for some reason.

But watched the Arsenal game when I got up this morning (as I used to do with Sky rather than get up live in the middle of the night) and have to say despite my negativity over the last few weeks I was pretty happy. Used Firefox connected to TV with HDMI, hardware acceleration unticked and display set to projector only. Was perfect on the laptop and a lot better than I remember from last season on the TV. Not quite perfect as it was still slightly shaky at times and always had a web stream feel about it rather than an HD TV broadcast but it didn't judder anything like last season which was headache inducing and almost un-watchable.

I'm happy enough with it to subscribe rather than waiting for the delayed Arsenal TV on Sky. Not quite as a good quality as Sky but I guess it's the best it's going be watching it this way until there's an app for my equipment. Hoping a playstation app happens at some point.

SwansNZ

97 posts

Master Geek

#1110075 17-Aug-2014 19:59

invisibleman18: Watched the start of the Man United game last night before bed and it looked pretty bad - from speaking to others who watched that game it sounds like it was bad for most people so there must have been some issues with that game for some reason.
But watched the Arsenal game when I got up this morning (as I used to do with Sky rather than get up live in the middle of the night) and have to say despite my negativity over the last few weeks I was pretty happy. Used Firefox connected to TV with HDMI, hardware acceleration unticked and display set to projector only. Was perfect on the laptop and a lot better than I remember from last season on the TV. Not quite perfect as it was still slightly shaky at times and always had a web stream feel about it rather than an HD TV broadcast but it didn't judder anything like last season which was headache inducing and almost un-watchable.
I'm happy enough with it to subscribe rather than waiting for the delayed Arsenal TV on Sky. Not quite as a good quality as Sky but I guess it's the best it's going be watching it this way until there's an app for my equipment. Hoping a playstation app happens at some point.

I watched the Swansea game early thus morning (5am), and thought the quality was good - and I'm not just talking about the Swans :) maybe the quality is better watching non-live of just at a bin-peak time?

The Samsung TV app did lose my internet connection twice, but that is my crap internet at fault, but I then had to keep forwarding in 5 and 1 minute intervals, to where I was.

MarkCerny

88 posts

Master Geek

#1110098 17-Aug-2014 20:22

Did anyone that use the samsung tv app have a good experience ? My picture was good it was just the motion that was terrible. Judder judder.

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dwl

371 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1110126 17-Aug-2014 21:18

474742: Good reply, yes its clearly less than 30fps, it's especially noticeable when the ball is crossed.
But why would it be? it buffers for 1 minute, so why would bandwidth be an issue?

Sorry if I confused the issue by mentioning bandwidth - that was related to higher frame rates which need more bandwidth for the same resolution - for the current max rate of 4500 the picture quality would likely degrade at higher frame rates. I don't see why frame rates higher than 25 FPS would be a good idea for now.

Unless you are getting buffering pauses the stutter/judder/jitter is likely to be a separate issue of either poor encoding/conversion or the player setup. When using a browser I would expect there to be a common stream regardless of browser so if it is good on one browser but not on another that would point to the player setup.

It does seem there is a Chrome issue based on these additional comments on the Yellow Fever Forum. What surprises me is there seems to be an extended period where some content seems worse on Chrome over several versions of Chrome and Flash based on these Google Chrome Help Forum posts over many months.

This does get complicated and getting smooth online streaming onto the large screen still seems to have variable success. Delivery over traditional TV platforms, especially now with digital, should be more consistent but that has the advantage of many years to mature. To debug individual quality issues with on demand services takes the set of problems to a whole new level - the price we pay for device and content flexibility.

MileHighKiwi

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#1110136 17-Aug-2014 21:32

ckcI didn't know they'd signed up Samsung as an exclusive smart TV partnerpartner.. I would rather watch stuttering illegal streams for the rest of my natural than support this shoddy venture. I get the feeling they must be getting fairly desperate to recoup their investment, because when you cancel most entertainment services, you get your money back, even pro-rata. But not with these clowns.

If I wasn't $150 out and having to file with the court, it'd be hilarious.

No offense mate but Imo it was blatantly obvious Samsung was the only option. Most pages in this thread are talking about it.

Ive veen critical of them previously but I watched the United Swansea game about 15 minutes delayed and the quality was mint. I do miss Sky's coverage but PLP is my only real option now and based on my free trial last night I'm really tempted to subscribe. It does suck on the laptop but it's better than nothing and not dodgy and filled with ads like the illegal streams.

StarBlazer

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#1110243 18-Aug-2014 08:25

MarkCerny: Did anyone that use the samsung tv app have a good experience ? My picture was good it was just the motion that was terrible. Judder judder.

Yes I'd like to know this also - there has been a lot of talk about the impending app on the Samsung TV - I can't get it as my TV is a 2012 model. I'm okay with that at the moment as I have my TV set to UK to watch BBC/ITV etc - but it's a pain to either move my PC from room to room or bring my laptop home from work.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

JonnyCam

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#1110262 18-Aug-2014 09:30

StarBlazer:
MarkCerny: Did anyone that use the samsung tv app have a good experience ? My picture was good it was just the motion that was terrible. Judder judder.

Yes I'd like to know this also - there has been a lot of talk about the impending app on the Samsung TV - I can't get it as my TV is a 2012 model. I'm okay with that at the moment as I have my TV set to UK to watch BBC/ITV etc - but it's a pain to either move my PC from room to room or bring my laptop home from work.

Judder for me in the Man Utd game, but when I tried to watch any other game around 6/7 am, it buffered for a second then said this match has ended.
I couldn't watch the highlights of the Utd game (fell asleep during it) as it continually buffered, but no buffering on the game itself.

Davy

196 posts

Master Geek

#1110315 18-Aug-2014 11:06

I watched the Arsenal game - nothing wrong with the quality. It wasn't full HD standard like on the TV version but definitely good enough quality to enjoy the game and way better than dodgy internet feeds.

I'm looking at subscribing now based on my experience (but need to do it by this Tuesday!)

Krishant007

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#1110319 18-Aug-2014 11:10

when is the 25% discount finishing off? I missed the chance this weekend to test the free trial. I would be keen to purchase the subscription - but I am hearing mixed reviews about the feeds online. I wouldnt mind paying a bit to get a stable connection instead of searching through the net looking for dodgy feeds. But if the paid connection is about 50% better than the dodgy feeds, then its not worth it.

Soo - forgetting maybe the first day hiccups and issues, how are the streams in general? It doesnt have to be full HD for me, but decent quality is the least i can ask for (at least similar to 420p but ideally 720p without stuttering)

invisibleman18

1360 posts

Uber Geek

#1110347 18-Aug-2014 11:24

The last day for the discount is tomorrow (19th). You can still use the free trial now so if you want you can login and have a look at the games on demand to test the quality with your setup.

Krishant007

1403 posts

Uber Geek

#1110356 18-Aug-2014 11:34

ahh tomorrow is the last day.. damn.. I was hoping to have a look at the games while everyone else was streaming live as well to look at how the streams hold up with everyone streaming.

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