Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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1222 posts

Uber Geek

#1291849 26-Apr-2015 19:56

just wait till TPPA kicks in. It will have allow blocking of all sorts of Parallel importing if the NZ firms selling products complain. For instance Random House will be able to block books imported from Amazon, and force you to buy from local booksellers. Ditto with videos and any other product that is sold in NZ by legitimate sellers. If you try to purchase outside of NZ you are infringing the TPPA agreement and the penalties can be horrendous.

To be frank, it's not much of a point in my view. It's like ABC holdings saying that they had paid Canon $$$$ to be the authorised dealer with the exclusive rights to sell Canon cameras in NZ, and so the force of the law and muscle of Canon's legal department should be used to stop Kiwis buying the camera's for less off (say) Amazon.

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DonGould

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Uber Geek

#1291901 26-Apr-2015 20:52

ronw: just wait till TPPA kicks in.

The chances of TPPA happening are zero.

There is simply to much global opporsition to it and many countries are not going to sign a pack that would lead to many of their people doing something they consider a protest.

Having said that, it might get signed then just be abandoned years later like so many of these types of laws seem to have over the past 50 years.

What is fantastic about TPPA, from what I can see, is the discussion is driving lots and lots of global discussion on the issues, which is a great thing.

Personally I think that the assumption that MFAT isn't full of very smart people who will look after New Zealands interests is just wrong.

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ronw

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Uber Geek

#1291907 26-Apr-2015 20:58

I hope you are correct but I see that Obama has today convinced the Congress to allow fast track of the agreement. This allows him to push it through despite objections. I current government need TPPA to go through so they can stay on good terms with USA

The chances of TPPA happening are zero.

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DonGould

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#1291924 26-Apr-2015 21:07

ronw: I current government need TPPA to go through so they can stay on good terms with USA

Our current government might find they're not our government at all at the next election if they do sign this agreement, and they know it.

I don't know what Obama is up to, I don't have time or energy to keep track, but I can see a growing understanding with New Zealanders that TPPA does not represent good outcomes for New Zealand at present.

If Obama actually wants this agreement then he's going to have to convince a few other countries not just his congress.

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JimmyH

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Uber Geek

#1291956 26-Apr-2015 21:37

ronw: just wait till TPPA kicks in. It will have allow blocking of all sorts of Parallel importing if the NZ firms selling products complain. For instance Random House will be able to block books imported from Amazon, and force you to buy from local booksellers. Ditto with videos and any other product that is sold in NZ by legitimate sellers. If you try to purchase outside of NZ you are infringing the TPPA agreement and the penalties can be horrendous.

And your evidence for this is what exactly?

As far as I know the wording of the agreement hasn't even been agreed, much less put forward for signature. All we have at the moment is speculation. Personally I doubt that any NZ government would want to sign something that banned parallel importing - to do so would be at variance with trade policy since 1984 (liberalisation and removal of trade barriers, with consensus across the major parties for this), do quite a bit of damage to NZ living standards, and be wildly unpopular.

All I have seen from the leaks is a bunch of drafts setting out what various countries are proposing. I'm prepared to withhold judgement until there is a final copy put forward for ratification. And I get slightly weary of the arm-waving conspiracy theorists who seem to think that the government is somehow part of a vast shadowy international plot to do them in - in reality the guys at MFAT and the Treasury are fairly smart professionals who actually care about doing a good job for NZ.

Show me a final draft with such clauses and then I will get agitated. Until then, I remain sceptical.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#1291960 26-Apr-2015 21:43

JimmyH: ... the government is somehow part of a vast shadowy international plot to do them in - in reality the guys at MFAT and the Treasury are fairly smart professionals who actually care about doing a good job for NZ.

ssh root@bnz.co.nz
cd home/JimmyH/bankingTrsactions
cat depositfile.txt
mysql SELECT * FROM tblRecentDeposits WHERE Reference like "*GCSB*" OR like "MFAT" OR like "NSA"
rm ~/.history
logout

humm.....

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BlakJak

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#1292063 27-Apr-2015 01:21

DonGould:
JimmyH: ... the government is somehow part of a vast shadowy international plot to do them in - in reality the guys at MFAT and the Treasury are fairly smart professionals who actually care about doing a good job for NZ.

ssh root@bnz.co.nz
cd home/JimmyH/bankingTrsactions
cat depositfile.txt
mysql SELECT * FROM tblRecentDeposits WHERE Reference like "*GCSB*" OR like "MFAT" OR like "NSA"
rm ~/.history
logout

humm.....

Oh don't be ridiculous Don. There are plenty of bloody-good public servants out there[1] and you do them a disservice to imply that anyone who asserts this, is being bribed.

(That and the above wouldn't cover your tracks; .history file is not in 'append' mode by default, so it won't get written to until after 'logout' - I believe)

I also doubt that your view of TPPA's future is anywhere near as absolute; the Govt has shown a tendency to ignore the public voice (after all, we voted them in, so they have what they needed from us!) and the public has shown a tendency to vote in the Nats despite the public voice pointing out why this is a bad idea. (For the record the Internet is quite a left-wing place, so a vocal opinion online is not necessarily reflective of general public opinion).

I'm sure those working in favour of TPPA have some (I would say misplaced) sense of understanding as to why they think the benefits outweigh the costs. I share the opinion that the inverse is true, but this doesn't mean we can be any less vigilant.

BJ.

[1] I spent nearly 6 years as a public servant[2]. They are generally by definition, politically agnostic; their loyalty is to the office, not the political affiliation. A public servant should be working to the benefit of NZ. In my experience the public servants I dealt across multiple agencies and departments were professional and top-notch.

[2] I still volunteer for a crown agency. I will serve and respect the office of the PM, whether they're from the political party I support or not. I retain my own opinion and the right to express it, and to hold Politicians to account - as we all should, actively.

As for Global Mode (to bring this back on track...) I think the reality is that the court case is needed, the outcome will be instructive and we all need to hope that the right conclusion is reached. So the mission is education... across the board...

No signature to see here, move along...

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JimmyH

2886 posts

Uber Geek

#1292123 27-Apr-2015 10:41

DonGould:
JimmyH: ... the government is somehow part of a vast shadowy international plot to do them in - in reality the guys at MFAT and the Treasury are fairly smart professionals who actually care about doing a good job for NZ.

ssh root@bnz.co.nz
cd home/JimmyH/bankingTrsactions
cat depositfile.txt
mysql SELECT * FROM tblRecentDeposits WHERE Reference like "*GCSB*" OR like "MFAT" OR like "NSA"
rm ~/.history
logout

humm.....

Oh come now, the GCSB is surely smart enough to route any retainer payments through an innocuous-sounding front company.

Sadly, they aren't paying me. But I do admit to knowing some people from both Treasury and MFAT, and they are solid professionals. The concept that they are all conspiring to push through a deal fully knowing it is bad for NZ is risible. The ones I know would resign before they were party to that.

As I said, I'm not inclined to get that excited about what may be in leaked negotiating drafts. Most of that will be posturing by various parties. I'm prepared to withhold judgement on whether the TPPA is a good deal or not until I see an actual agreement proposed for signature/ratification.

old3eyes

9119 posts

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#1292124 27-Apr-2015 10:43

JimmyH:
DonGould:
JimmyH: ... the government is somehow part of a vast shadowy international plot to do them in - in reality the guys at MFAT and the Treasury are fairly smart professionals who actually care about doing a good job for NZ.

ssh root@bnz.co.nz
cd home/JimmyH/bankingTrsactions
cat depositfile.txt
mysql SELECT * FROM tblRecentDeposits WHERE Reference like "*GCSB*" OR like "MFAT" OR like "NSA"
rm ~/.history
logout

humm.....

Oh come now, the GCSB is surely smart enough to route any retainer payments through an innocuous-sounding front company.

Sadly, they aren't paying me. But I do admit to knowing some people from both Treasury and MFAT, and they are solid professionals. The concept that they are all conspiring to push through a deal fully knowing it is bad for NZ is risible. The ones I know would resign before they were party to that.

As I said, I'm not inclined to get that excited about what may be in leaked negotiating drafts. Most of that will be posturing by various parties. I'm prepared to withhold judgement on whether the TPPA is a good deal or not until I see an actual agreement proposed for signature/ratification.

You expect to see what it is before it's signed?? I don't think so..

Regards,

Old3eyes

sultanoswing

814 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1292127 27-Apr-2015 10:53

It's probably already been signed, and as we write this, armies of overpaid PR spin merchants are working out how to sell it to sceptical populations without inciting what would later come to be known as "The Globalmode Revolution".

sbiddle

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#1292156 27-Apr-2015 11:22

DonGould:
ronw: just wait till TPPA kicks in.

The chances of TPPA happening are zero.

I'd say the changes of it NOT happening are zero. It's probably going to happen whether we like it or not.

And when more people are worried about keeping Campbell Live on TV that protesting against it, it sums up the whole situation really.

ronw

1222 posts

Uber Geek

#1292179 27-Apr-2015 11:56

I would agree. The laid back attitude of most kiwis is amazing. Comments like let's wait till we are the details are just plain silly. Regardless of details neither the people or parliament will get any day on whether we join the agreement. The decision will be made by the executive council and we have no way of changing their decision before our after the decision.

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DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#1292204 27-Apr-2015 12:43

BlakJak: Oh don't be ridiculous Don.

Why not?

Most of the crap I read from people about the TPPA is just ridiculous and even more so about public servants.

The general ignorance about these people is just amazing.

BlakJak: (That and the above wouldn't cover your tracks; .history file is not in 'append' mode by default, so it won't get written to until after 'logout' - I believe)

hu, I didn't know that. Frankly I find the history file so useful that I've never actually attempted to delete it.

BlakJak: As for Global Mode (to bring this back on track...) I think the reality is that the court case is needed, the outcome will be instructive and we all need to hope that the right conclusion is reached. So the mission is education... across the board...

Really? I disagree. The court case is just a bunch of lawyers wanting to dip a paw in the bowl.

I went down to DSE to buy my third AppleTV box yesterday so that I could connect someone else up to legal[1] Netflix content and DSE were out of stock. When I asked why they said "netflix".

[1] I use that word very loosely. What I mean is that I now purchased the box because it's just stupid easy to set up and I don't have to use a range of services to make it work, I just plug it in and it just goes and I don't currently feel I have to worry about some greedy lawyer chasing me for his cut.

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MikeB4

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#1292208 27-Apr-2015 12:51

DonGould:
BlakJak: Oh don't be ridiculous Don.

Why not?

Most of the crap I read from people about the TPPA is just ridiculous and even more so about public servants.

The general ignorance about these people is just amazing.

BlakJak: (That and the above wouldn't cover your tracks; .history file is not in 'append' mode by default, so it won't get written to until after 'logout' - I believe)

hu, I didn't know that. Frankly I find the history file so useful that I've never actually attempted to delete it.

BlakJak: As for Global Mode (to bring this back on track...) I think the reality is that the court case is needed, the outcome will be instructive and we all need to hope that the right conclusion is reached. So the mission is education... across the board...

Really? I disagree. The court case is just a bunch of lawyers wanting to dip a paw in the bowl.

I went down to DSE to buy my third AppleTV box yesterday so that I could connect someone else up to legal[1] Netflix content and DSE were out of stock. When I asked why they said "netflix".

[1] I use that word very loosely. What I mean is that I now purchased the box because it's just stupid easy to set up and I don't have to use a range of services to make it work, I just plug it in and it just goes and I don't currently feel I have to worry about some greedy lawyer chasing me for his cut.

yep we all have Swiss bank accounts and drive to the Govt Precinct each morning in our Aston Martins

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#1292209 27-Apr-2015 12:55

JimmyH: Oh come now, the GCSB is surely smart enough to route any retainer payments through an innocuous-sounding front company.

Sadly, they aren't paying me. But I do admit to knowing some people from both Treasury and MFAT, and they are solid professionals. The concept that they are all conspiring to push through a deal fully knowing it is bad for NZ is risible. The ones I know would resign before they were party to that.

Oh come on! Run this code please...

ssh root@brain
/etc/init.d/sarcasumdetector.d restart

Really guys! I was simply just making a back handed comment to support your view that all the conspiracy theories out there are just getting stupid.

I grew up in this space. I have every idea what these government people are like at the top level of our government. My own father used to be away for weeks on end in Australia during CER negotiations.

JimmyH: As I said, I'm not inclined to get that excited about what may be in leaked negotiating drafts. Most of that will be posturing by various parties. I'm prepared to withhold judgement on whether the TPPA is a good deal or not until I see an actual agreement proposed for signature/ratification.

I agree. I understand that the officials want to keep the drafts out of the public eye because they know that some of the stuff in them will be just unrealistic crap and they're working to quietly discuss their way through the rubbish until everyone can get to a reasonable point of agreement that isn't going to cause protests like we've never seen before.

I also know that one of the strategies in play by many governments will be to just spin this process out until there is a .us change in government.

...oh and don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting for even 1 mil second that people shouldn't be vigilant and keep a very close watch on things. I'm just, and only, saying that my current response is just to poke a bit of fun when I see an opportunity, and I meant no personal disrespect to anyone!

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