TVNZ on Demand botch-up

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ageorge

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#145494 19-May-2014 20:19

For some time I have used an Android media centre for TVNZ on demand, with occasional use of my Linux box.
Have you tried recently to use On demand on your android? Now they've made some changes and blame non-compatibility of their site on models of Android phone other than Samsung.
Well I went to watch on demand on my Linux box tonight and guess what - on demand is now not working on some Linux boxes either. They describe this issue as a Linux problem.

Totally incompetent and patronising.
If something works you dont break it then blame others equipment; but TVNZ does!!
Cheers,
Alistair.

Alistair Grant George

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#1048461 19-May-2014 22:47

Moved to correct forum as this is not a Freeview problem.

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ageorge

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#1050390 21-May-2014 11:53

Its gone from bad to worse. Rechecking today to see if they have fixed on my Linux (mint) box:
The ad plays then you get a message saying cant play restricted content.
So if ad play works, then video should as well. Seems they have an issue with area/location interrogation of IP address. Since this is a new issue you would think a professional organisation could revert back.
TVNZ list a bunch of fixes for the issue but obviously havent tested the fixes themselves, because they simply dont work.

bagheera

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#1050412 21-May-2014 12:23

Totally incompetent and patronising.
If something works you dont break it then blame others equipment; but TVNZ does!!
Cheers,
Alistair.

they have to "break it" so they can get the rights to stream it from the media company - old setup can be used on system that can "rip" the media to disk - so media company say to get streaming right you need to upgrade system - even if it break it for some people, they still have to do it or stream nothing. blame the right people - TVNZ would have known before that your setup will not work, but have to upgrade so they can get the broadcast rights.

Media company selling the TV rights is your problem here, not TVNZ

ageorge

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#1050426 21-May-2014 12:52

bagheera:
they have to "break it" so they can get the rights to stream it from the media company - old setup can be used on system that can "rip" the media to disk - so media company say to get streaming right you need to upgrade system - even if it break it for some people, they still have to do it or stream nothing. blame the right people - TVNZ would have known before that your setup will not work, but have to upgrade so they can get the broadcast rights.
Media company selling the TV rights is your problem here, not TVNZ

Why should it be that PC/Windows still stream OK, as does ONLY Android Samsung, not any other make of Android.

This has nothing to do with broadcast rights if some devices work and not others because that would mean that Samsung and Windows PC are being allowed to breach those rights.
More specifically the fixes they suggest do not work with the other devices.

bagheera

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#1050430 21-May-2014 13:07

ageorge:
bagheera:
they have to "break it" so they can get the rights to stream it from the media company - old setup can be used on system that can "rip" the media to disk - so media company say to get streaming right you need to upgrade system - even if it break it for some people, they still have to do it or stream nothing. blame the right people - TVNZ would have known before that your setup will not work, but have to upgrade so they can get the broadcast rights.
Media company selling the TV rights is your problem here, not TVNZ

Why should it be that PC/Windows still stream OK, as does ONLY Android Samsung, not any other make of Android.

This has nothing to do with broadcast rights if some devices work and not others because that would mean that Samsung and Windows PC are being allowed to breach those rights.
More specifically the fixes they suggest do not work with the other devices.

Because TVNZ have rights to broadcast to certified devices - windows with MS & x version of silverlight / flushplayer is one device, Samsung has paid for their app to be certified on their hardware to the media company, but your linux / other andriod devices have not. To get the rights, TVNZ have to prove that they block none support devices that can get around the encryption stopping people from ripping the stream. TVNZ have 2 option - break it for every one and not broadcast online, or break it for small % because media company have all the power over what they can and can not broadcast to.

ageorge

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#1050437 21-May-2014 13:16

Well you can rip the stream on a PC and Samsung just as easily as on any other device. In fact I tried to rip some content a while back (when it was working) and their protection system worked fine; no way could I rip TVNZ whereas other sources are easy.
Thanks for the input, but it would be a lot better if TVNZ disclosed what was going on rather than providing a whole bunch of fixes which may or may not work, and if they work then the compromise is back to where it started!

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bagheera

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#1050443 21-May-2014 13:26

ageorge: Well you can rip the stream on a PC and Samsung just as easily as on any other device. In fact I tried to rip some content a while back (when it was working) and their protection system worked fine; no way could I rip TVNZ whereas other sources are easy.
Thanks for the input, but it would be a lot better if TVNZ disclosed what was going on rather than providing a whole bunch of fixes which may or may not work, and if they work then the compromise is back to where it started!

you will also find that they can not say what is going on, because the media company do not want you to know the reason - TVNZ does say very clearly that it work on Samsung android, but not other android devices, and when it become a issue with ripping the stream on pc with MS / Samsung android - Samsung will have "update" their app, MS people will have to upgrade flush player / silverlight , & TVNZ will have to "upgrade" their back end breaking it again for people like you.

Killerkiwi2005

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#1057596 1-Jun-2014 16:17

ageorge: Its gone from bad to worse. Rechecking today to see if they have fixed on my Linux (mint) box:
The ad plays then you get a message saying cant play restricted content.
So if ad play works, then video should as well. Seems they have an issue with area/location interrogation of IP address. Since this is a new issue you would think a professional organisation could revert back.
TVNZ list a bunch of fixes for the issue but obviously havent tested the fixes themselves, because they simply dont work.

You may need to install HAL on newer machines as thats what linux flash uses for the DRM but it has been removed from most distros
https://github.com/cshorler/hal-flash

If that dosnt work then try pipelight it uses the windows flash player in your linux browser
http://fds-team.de/cms/pipelight-installation.html

Don't understand drm my self your always one google search and click away from downloading anything so I really see what they gain, but thats the world we live in

Killerkiwi2005

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#1057597 1-Jun-2014 16:21

Also if you want copies of the content invest in a cheap dvb-t usb stick, much easier then dealing with this DRM rubbish

farcus

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#1057621 1-Jun-2014 16:40

bagheera:
Totally incompetent and patronising.
If something works you dont break it then blame others equipment; but TVNZ does!!
Cheers,
Alistair.

they have to "break it" so they can get the rights to stream it from the media company - old setup can be used on system that can "rip" the media to disk - so media company say to get streaming right you need to upgrade system - even if it break it for some people, they still have to do it or stream nothing. blame the right people - TVNZ would have known before that your setup will not work, but have to upgrade so they can get the broadcast rights.

Media company selling the TV rights is your problem here, not TVNZ

that's absolute nonsense. If it were true then every media streaming service would not work on android or linux.
What is really the case here is that TVNZ have *chosen* a drm technology that is going to cause problems for a not insignificant amount of users. They obviously are of the opionion that all their customers use Windows, Mac, iphone or Samsung-Android. Screw anybody else.

TVNZ could just as easily have chosen a different drm technology that is more compatible with a wider range of devices. In this case it seems they have gone for the easiest/cheapest option.

NonprayingMantis

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#1057625 1-Jun-2014 16:51

farcus:
bagheera:
Totally incompetent and patronising.
If something works you dont break it then blame others equipment; but TVNZ does!!
Cheers,
Alistair.

they have to "break it" so they can get the rights to stream it from the media company - old setup can be used on system that can "rip" the media to disk - so media company say to get streaming right you need to upgrade system - even if it break it for some people, they still have to do it or stream nothing. blame the right people - TVNZ would have known before that your setup will not work, but have to upgrade so they can get the broadcast rights.

Media company selling the TV rights is your problem here, not TVNZ

that's absolute nonsense. If it were true then every media streaming service would not work on android or linux.
What is really the case here is that TVNZ have *chosen* a drm technology that is going to cause problems for a not insignificant amount of users. They obviously are of the opionion that all their customers use Windows, Mac, iphone or Samsung-Android. Screw anybody else. TVNZ could just as easily have chosen a different drm technology that is more compatible with a wider range of devices. In this case it seems they have gone for the easiest/cheapest option.

sorry Bagheera is very likely correct here.

different studios demand different forms of DRM. Studios even demand that the broadcaster use different DRM depending on the type of content - ad-served content can be different to paid content. HD can be different to SD. etc

then there is the fact that if you are the size of Netflix or Comcast, you get a lot of bargaining power with the studios and can do more of what you want, or even pay for your own DRM to be certified.

Someone the size of TVNZ just doesn't get the same leverage and if the studios demand certain DRM or other limitaitons there isn't much TVNZ can do but use it.

Basically it comes down to this:

whenever a video service places restrictions on what you can watch, where you can watch it, what device you can watch it on, how many devices you can register, whether the content is HD or SD, how often you can watch it, or anything along those lines that makes the experience worse for the customer, you can make a pretty safe bet that it is the studio behind it every. single. time.

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Kyanar

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#1057713 1-Jun-2014 21:40

NonprayingMantis:

sorry Bagheera is very likely correct here.

different studios demand different forms of DRM. Studios even demand that the broadcaster use different DRM depending on the type of content - ad-served content can be different to paid content. HD can be different to SD. etc

then there is the fact that if you are the size of Netflix or Comcast, you get a lot of bargaining power with the studios and can do more of what you want, or even pay for your own DRM to be certified.

Someone the size of TVNZ just doesn't get the same leverage and if the studios demand certain DRM or other limitaitons there isn't much TVNZ can do but use it.

Basically it comes down to this:

whenever a video service places restrictions on what you can watch, where you can watch it, what device you can watch it on, how many devices you can register, whether the content is HD or SD, how often you can watch it, or anything along those lines that makes the experience worse for the customer, you can make a pretty safe bet that it is the studio behind it every. single. time.

Doubt it. TVNZ wouldn't go out of their way to break the site for people using different brands of devices if that were the case. The most likely scenario is that Samsung, as is their modus-operandi, entered into a "strategic partnership" with TVNZ to make their app and content Samsung-exclusive just like with Sky TV and TV3, and now Westpac. Frankly, I don't know why anti-competition authorities aren't looking at Samsung yet as their behaviour is blatantly illegal.

Dratsab

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#1057734 1-Jun-2014 22:31

Our 'anti competition' regulators have a long history of being very out of touch with current events so wouldn't start to look at this until it's way to late.

Mark

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#1057759 2-Jun-2014 00:55

Just to chuck in an extra nugget of info .. TVNZ On Demand no longer works on the PS3 now, says something about a new player coming out early 2015 .... I'll not hold my breath though.

Mind you as an "app" on the PS3 I think it was nothing more than a link to a webpage.

Kyanar

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#1057795 2-Jun-2014 09:39

Yup. On the PS3 it just linked to http://tvnz.co.nz/ondemand/xl which was a Flash applet. Worked on your computer too, if you mapped the PS3 buttons to the equivalent keyboard ones. Better UI in my opinion than the regular ondemand and higher quality streams.

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