Just wondering about NZ iptv

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rb99

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#255649 22-Aug-2019 11:07

Whenever I happen to see this thread https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=106&topicid=232227&page_no=26

I wonder if anyone knows about plans if any for iptv for the FTA channels. I mean I know of and use iptv for TVNZ and TV3 and Duuke and whatever, but does anyone know if all the dvb-s and/or dvb-t channels will be available via iptv, will they ever all be at least 1080i/p, will we have colonised Jupiter for it happens ? Any thoughts...

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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sbiddle

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#2303667 22-Aug-2019 11:19

All the Mediaworks and TVNZ channels are already available as publicly accessible HLS streams, and most of the smaller Freeview channels are as well with the exception of Prime.

rb99

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#2303725 22-Aug-2019 11:46

Yes, but most aren't 1080, and they don't do the +1 channels (and Prime, as you said). Am kind of hoping for any news about those.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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sbiddle

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#2303733 22-Aug-2019 12:02

What specific use would you have for an IPTV stream of a +1 channel? If you can't watch something like you can just record it to watch it at any time you want, or just watch the On Demand version of the show.

As for not being 1080 it's a valid point, but the reality is lots of people would never spot the difference between a 720P feed (which is what TVNZ for example are streaming) and their 1080i DVB-T broadcast.

surfisup1000

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#2303738 22-Aug-2019 12:12

sbiddle:

What specific use would you have for an IPTV stream of a +1 channel? If you can't watch something like you can just record it to watch it at any time you want, or just watch the On Demand version of the show.

As for not being 1080 it's a valid point, but the reality is lots of people would never spot the difference between a 720P feed (which is what TVNZ for example are streaming) and their 1080i DVB-T broadcast

I notice the difference between 720 and 1080.... can't say the same for 1080/4k.

Watching a live tv stream can be satisfying in a way that on-demand cannot match. Channel surfing, flicking from one channel to the next. Some people like it.

On demand can get a bit behind too. Although , I think it has been improving (tvnz news for example).

rb99

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#2303740 22-Aug-2019 12:14

Well I'm not organised enough generally to spot and record things. There are also (rare) occasions when there are two programs I want too watch on at the same time, so the +1 could help with that. True I could use catchup, but the only one we have that works on the Shield is TVNZ.

Also we're on dvb-s which has zero HD, so it would of course be nice to get iptv in HD, unless the dvb-s goes HD.

And I could record in HD.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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allio

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#2303769 22-Aug-2019 13:03

"1080p" streams of broadcast TV aren't as simple as people think. I've ranted about this here before. The problem is people don't consider the framerate and/or differing kinds of source material. Broadcast TV needs to be able to deal with 24/25 FPS progressive content, like movies, and also 50 FPS content like live sports and many (most?) TV shows. 1080i is able to do a pretty good job in all situations. In practice you get close to the same spatial resolution as 1080p for 24/25 FPS progressive content, and you get the benefits of higher temporal resolution for 50 FPS content.

All the progressive options have tradeoffs compared to 1080i:

A 1080p/25 stream, when compared to broadcast 1080i, is going to look like choppy crud with live sports or many TV shows. It will be a little better for films, and would be the best option for dedicated movie channels, but would be a poor option for anything else.

720p/50 won't look quite as crisp for progressive content (and half the stream's bandwidth is wasted when displaying a film - each frame is repeated twice) but will handle TV and sports very well. A good option for most channels. When you think a stream looks crappy and you want it to be "more HD", you should ask for 720p/50 (and probably more bitrate) before you ask for 1080p/25.

720p/25 is unfortunately what we have for most streams at the moment, and is the worst of both worlds. Sports/TV will always be choppy and movies will never look as good as 1080i/p.

1080p/50 is the best of both worlds from a purely visual quality sense, but to match the quality of the DVB-T signal you're looking at a 20Mbps+ stream which at this stage is prohibitive from a bandwidth perspective. You're also wasting a huge amount of bandwidth with 24/25 FPS content.

People assume that interlacing is always bad and that progressive is always better. That is only true if you don't take framerate or bandwidth into account. 1080i has a big advantage which is that it refreshes twice as often as a progressive signal and can therefore provide much more temporal resolution. There's a reason broadcast TV stayed interlaced in the digital era - it is a better jack of all trades for different kinds of source content and consistently delivers a good picture in a reasonable bandwidth envelope.

timbosan

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#2303856 22-Aug-2019 13:16

sbiddle:

What specific use would you have for an IPTV stream of a +1 channel? If you can't watch something like you can just record it to watch it at any time you want, or just watch the On Demand version of the show.

As for not being 1080 it's a valid point, but the reality is lots of people would never spot the difference between a 720P feed (which is what TVNZ for example are streaming) and their 1080i DVB-T broadcast.

I would have to disagree with this. We had a UFB fault the other day so had to resort to DVB-T (aerial direct to the TV), and compared to the IPTV streams we have watched for the past year or so (via Kodi on a Pi box), the DVB-T picture is not only a lot sharper, but smoother.

I agree, the clarify could be because I have a 65" TV and the 720 / 1080 comparison is more noticeable than on something like a 43", but I was surprised at the difference. To the point where I would prefer to invest time into getting my HTPC working again so I can watch DVB-T over the IPTV steams instead of via Kodi.

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rb99

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#2303875 22-Aug-2019 13:44

Interesting stuff about resolution vs framerate, and sounds like 1080i would be a decent compromise, but still it seems its a bit of a token effort so far and they should be aiming for at least 720p(or i) for everything, and preferably 1080i.

I guess there's no news about any improvements anywhere, but we can hope.

(Its easy to say when it isn't my money, but talk is free...)

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

allio

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#2303893 22-Aug-2019 14:07

rb99:

Interesting stuff about resolution vs framerate, and sounds like 1080i would be a decent compromise, but still it seems its a bit of a token effort so far and they should be aiming for at least 720p(or i) for everything, and preferably 1080i.

I guess there's no news about any improvements anywhere, but we can hope.

(Its easy to say when it isn't my money, but talk is free...)

All my defending of 1080i aside... you really don't want an interlaced signal for an online stream. For one thing it requires much more work at the receiving end to put the signal together into a nice smooth picture. A TV can do it perfectly but you can't count on the receiving device of an online stream having dedicated deinterlacing hardware, and if you get it wrong the result is terrible. I guess my point was that 720p/50 is likely the "ideal" IPTV format rather than 1080p/25 or 1080p/50 at this point in time.

I agree with timbosan that the difference between an IPTV stream and a DVB-T one is pretty obvious, but it's not because it's 720 vs 1080. When you compare an IPTV stream to the broadcast version and it looks crap in comparison, the main reasons for the crapness are (in order):

Framerate
Bitrate
Spatial resolution (i.e. "1080 vs 720")

A good 720p/50 stream with a healthy (~6Mbps+) bitrate will look close enough to the DVB-T signal for most purposes. Last time I checked, most of the available streams today are 720p/25 with ~2Mbps bitrate.

sbiddle

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#2303903 22-Aug-2019 14:27

allio:

rb99:

Interesting stuff about resolution vs framerate, and sounds like 1080i would be a decent compromise, but still it seems its a bit of a token effort so far and they should be aiming for at least 720p(or i) for everything, and preferably 1080i.

I guess there's no news about any improvements anywhere, but we can hope.

(Its easy to say when it isn't my money, but talk is free...)

All my defending of 1080i aside... you really don't want an interlaced signal for an online stream. For one thing it requires much more work at the receiving end to put the signal together into a nice smooth picture. A TV can do it perfectly but you can't count on the receiving device of an online stream having dedicated deinterlacing hardware, and if you get it wrong the result is terrible. I guess my point was that 720p/50 is likely the "ideal" IPTV format rather than 1080p/25 or 1080p/50 at this point in time.

I agree with timbosan that the difference between an IPTV stream and a DVB-T one is pretty obvious, but it's not because it's 720 vs 1080. When you compare an IPTV stream to the broadcast version and it looks crap in comparison, the main reasons for the crapness are (in order):

Framerate
Bitrate
Spatial resolution (i.e. "1080 vs 720")
A good 720p/50 stream with a healthy (~6Mbps+) bitrate will look close enough to the DVB-T signal for most purposes. Last time I checked, most of the available streams today are 720p/25 with ~2Mbps bitrate.

I think you need to offer Spark Sport some advice. 😀

allio

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#2303919 22-Aug-2019 14:58

sbiddle:

I think you need to offer Spark Sport some advice. 😀

I wish they'd ask my opinion! I'd talk their ears off 😄

Apsattv

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#2303923 22-Aug-2019 15:01

Vodafone have soft launched their new STB which will be open to users of all ISPS and will have alll the Freeview channels plus various other functions

You might want to try the Vodafone tv section for more info.