2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2630250 4-Jan-2021 15:35

Oblivian:

If only they would take note of the science huh

I had to explain to some people on a US news stream last night, they were real upbeat and going they hope more people get it so they can be over and done with it. Cause vaccine/devil. And there was no other way. Cause lockdowns never work.. uh huh

And kept up with the whole '99.7% recovery rate' argument.

They are far too self centered to listen to reason. Or science. Or both.. If they aren't directly effected. Doesn't matter.

Takes an infection or going through it to even slightly persuade. No matter the story, the shift appears far too much in the wrong direction

in the USA, someone's been lying to them (and still is!) and half the people believe the lies so there's a big divide there. in fact the same information is being disseminated across the internet around the world and a lot of people inc in NZ also believe that stuff - coz i've been talking to them for the last 2 weeks. no amount of typing into this forum is going to change their mind.

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#2630300 4-Jan-2021 19:04

tdgeek:
rugrat:
The UK is not going to give the vaccine as directed by the manufacture. They could reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine by doing this?
Instead of 21 days between doses they are looking at 12 weeks, and hoping new batches arrive when suppose to.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-vaccine-doses-pfizer-fauci-b1781455.html#

Another fail

This is allowed by the manufacturer. UK is in a bad situation with accelerating infection rate. The purpose of the strategy is immunising a larger number of people with an initially limited supply of vaccine. Effectiveness does not reduce assuming the second dose is delivered in time. The article does not raise any issues. What are the problems with this approach?

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#2630308 4-Jan-2021 19:26

gzt:

This is allowed by the manufacturer. UK is in a bad situation with accelerating infection rate. The purpose of the strategy is immunising a larger number of people with an initially limited supply of vaccine. Effectiveness does not reduce assuming the second dose is delivered in time. The article does not raise any issues. What are the problems with this approach?

If giving one dose was fine, and the second in the never never, why is this not a standard global approach? Two doses are requires so one dose is supposedly not enough. Are you better to double dose 10,000 people or single dose 20,000? if a single dose is fine, why give two doses? Or does a single dose have the same efficacy as a double dose?

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#2630309 4-Jan-2021 19:29

Batman:

in the USA, someone's been lying to them (and still is!) and half the people believe the lies so there's a big divide there. in fact the same information is being disseminated across the internet around the world and a lot of people inc in NZ also believe that stuff - coz i've been talking to them for the last 2 weeks. no amount of typing into this forum is going to change their mind.

No excuse. USA with its massive technology as internet access to global news. Last I heard USA Today or Fox wasn't the sole news source.

If it doesnt matter to them, it doesn't need to matter to us, plenty of places to travel to and we can ban travellers from the US, as its more than likely when the globe has got ten over this, they haven't.

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#2630311 4-Jan-2021 19:38

https://nypost.com/2021/01/03/califonia-funeral-homes-fill-up-as-covid-19-surges/

And this is speculated to be only the thanks giving count surge, not Christmas. Jeebus.

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#2630314 4-Jan-2021 19:47

tdgeek:
gzt:

This is allowed by the manufacturer. UK is in a bad situation with accelerating infection rate. The purpose of the strategy is immunising a larger number of people with an initially limited supply of vaccine. Effectiveness does not reduce assuming the second dose is delivered in time. The article does not raise any issues. What are the problems with this approach?
If giving one dose was fine, and the second in the never never, why is this not a standard global approach? Two doses are requires so one dose is supposedly not enough. Are you better to double dose 10,000 people or single dose 20,000? if a single dose is fine, why give two doses? Or does a single dose have the same efficacy as a double dose?

Compared to the simpler and guaranteed approach of allocating and distributing the first and second dose at the same time..

I expect the proposed method in UK introduces logistical problems around allocating the second dose. Logistical risks in the manufacturing and supply chain could multiply into delivery failure for the second dose.

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#2630445 5-Jan-2021 09:13

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/covid-vaccine-us-dose-cut-half-moderna-b1781863.html

is half dose moderna just as good?

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#2630456 5-Jan-2021 09:49

Batman:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/covid-vaccine-us-dose-cut-half-moderna-b1781863.html

is half dose moderna just as good?

If it was the dose would already be half you would think.

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#2630560 5-Jan-2021 10:57

Epidemics, and the vaccine affects, are just statistics. Someone will have done the maths and decided that, in the current situation, giving more people a "worse" dose is overall better than giving less people the "better" dose.

As situations change, so too does the response. That's just good science.

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#2630564 5-Jan-2021 11:07

mkissin:

Epidemics, and the vaccine affects, are just statistics. Someone will have done the maths and decided that, in the current situation, giving more people a "worse" dose is overall better than giving less people the "better" dose.

As situations change, so too does the response. That's just good science.

Or a PR response to give better numbers in the light of failure. Whether its good science all depends on how a half dose compares. How does it compare?

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#2630567 5-Jan-2021 11:13

tdgeek:

Or a PR response to give better numbers in the light of failure. Whether its good science all depends on how a half dose compares. How does it compare?

Nobody here (I'm fairly certain) has the relevant expertise to answer that question, which is why we have experts. At some point you do have to trust those people. In a lot of cases, letting perfect be the enemy of the good leads to a worse outcome and someone needs to make the call one way or the other, without the benefit of hindsight.

Experts debate fiddling with vaccine doses as virus rages out of control | Ars Technica

I guess it's important to understand that, with the rapidity of the vaccine testing, we don't have answers for a lot of these "what if" questions. Someone just needs to take an educated stab at it.

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#2630569 5-Jan-2021 11:23

mkissin:

Nobody here (I'm fairly certain) has the relevant expertise to answer that question, which is why we have experts. At some point you do have to trust those people. In a lot of cases, letting perfect be the enemy of the good leads to a worse outcome and someone needs to make the call one way or the other, without the benefit of hindsight.

Experts debate fiddling with vaccine doses as virus rages out of control | Ars Technica

I guess it's important to understand that, with the rapidity of the vaccine testing, we don't have answers for a lot of these "what if" questions. Someone just needs to take an educated stab at it.

Exactly, no answer has been given. So whether it offers a better outcome or whether its politically motivated to gloss over the over-promised vaccination is unknown, and if its good science or not. If it was good science you would have thought, given the length of time involved, that every country would be offering half doses from day one. They hadn't

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#2630571 5-Jan-2021 11:31

tdgeek:

Exactly, no answer has been given. So whether it offers a better outcome or whether its politically motivated to gloss over the over-promised vaccination is unknown, and if its good science or not. If it was good science you would have thought, given the length of time involved, that every country would be offering half doses from day one. They hadn't

I wouldn't expect that at all. The full dose is what was tested and recommended, so I would expect the full dose for all countries unless some external factor forced the situation another way. Maybe like the sort of rampant, utter disaster currently facing the UK and USA.

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#2630572 5-Jan-2021 11:38

It's not that simple.

In medicine there is this thing called dose response curve.

Not a binary yes no.

And this dose response curve applies to a population of people, not technically to a single person.

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#2630573 5-Jan-2021 11:39

mkissin:

I wouldn't expect that at all. The full dose is what was tested and recommended, so I would expect the full dose for all countries unless some external factor forced the situation another way. Maybe like the sort of rampant, utter disaster currently facing the UK and USA.

So its not good science, as the better outcome is the correct dose. Using the rampant failures in USA and UK is no reason to give low doses. You would consider a proper lockdown, for once, which after 2/3 of a year, ENG is now doing.

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