2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2679438 23-Mar-2021 17:07

Jase2985:

the problem is thats hows its being operated, trusting people to do the right thing

It's the classic Kiwi she'll be right attitude.

Unfortunately as we've seen sometimes she will not, in fact, be right.

I understand MIQ is not prison, and I understand there's no playbook for this kind of thing, and I understand sometimes you have to make the mistake to learn from it - but I feel we should perhaps have been more stringent than we have in a few areas and this is probably one of them.

Handle9

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#2679441 23-Mar-2021 17:12

Jase2985:
the problem is thats hows its being operated, trusting people to do the right thing

How is this a problem with people not doing the right thing? They are following the rules that the authorities have given them.

antonknee

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#2679447 23-Mar-2021 17:23

Handle9:
Jase2985:
the problem is thats hows its being operated, trusting people to do the right thing

How is this a problem with people not doing the right thing? They are following the rules that the authorities have given them.

I’m guessing “the right thing” is the common sense approach of not getting on the bus full of returned who may have Covid-19. However you’re quite right that the individuals are just doing what they’re allowed to do by the authorities (and are presumably told is safe enough to do).

That the authorities allow and encourage what to me is an obviously risky practice is the real issue IMO. Again, it’s a case of where do you draw the line as there’s no such thing as zero-risk.

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#2679453 23-Mar-2021 17:46

I do think people need to keep in mind the difference in the risk profile on either side of the Tasman. From the Australian perspective they made a calculated risk to open their borders to ~5m people into their country of ~25m. Any visitors from New Zealand would most likely be dispersed all over Australia so any outbreaks with a NZ source would be small, dispersed/isolated and easily contained. On the other side, from the New Zealand perspective we are talking about accepting visitors from a country with a population of ~25m into New Zealand with ~5m. Many visitors from Australia would most likely cluster themselves in various tourist destinations e.g. Queenstown making an outbreak on this side potentially very difficult to manage if large number of Australian visitors started to experience symptoms at around the same time. A very different risk profile by any definition of the phrase. Therefore it does make sense that Australia can tolerate the risk of a population of 5m (some one-fifth of their population) people having access to travel into Australia; whereas the same can't be said of NZ tolerating the risk of a country with 5x the population having access to travel into NZ.

At the end of the day our Government has to act in the best interests of our team of 5m people and I believe they have mostly done that exceptionally well to date. When I look overseas I must say there are not many countries where I can say 'I wish I was living there'. Our response has been (despite its many flaws) among the best world-wide. All my friends overseas are absolutely jealous of what we have here in NZ.

Lets appreciate what we have. We are all exceptionally luckily to have lived in NZ during this pandemic. Lets be patient and wait this thing out. Better to save kiwi lives than be foolish for the sake of a few more Australian tourist dollars.

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#2679519 23-Mar-2021 21:35

antonknee:

From Stuff:

MIQ worker not classed as CT (as infection was picked up in MIQ rather than being picked up from the community). Anyone who gets it from the worker should obviously be classed as CT.

Has had the first vaccine dose, but I'm not sure of the timeline.

At this stage considered very low risk as only a few locations of interest, asymptomatic, and caught via surveillance testing rather than a swab off the back of symptoms.

Every other worker MIQ worker who has contracted Covid has been treated as CT - MoH called it CT, and our media call it CT.

Even the MoH specifically clarified that this was CT in another November case

Something has clearly changed around classification of cases, and I'm really curious why this has changed. Are the Govt scared to use the word CT now?

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#2679522 23-Mar-2021 21:37

This is where the cynic in me goes.. I wonder if the reason isn't due to a classification having a bearing /effect on some certain negotiations ongoing on the immediate horizon at present...

sbiddle

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#2679524 23-Mar-2021 21:38

KiwiSurfer:

Lets appreciate what we have. We are all exceptionally luckily to have lived in NZ during this pandemic. Lets be patient and wait this thing out. Better to save kiwi lives than be foolish for the sake of a few more Australian tourist dollars.

Lets be pretty clear here.. A TT bubble isn't suddenly going to save our economy any time soon, it's going to be months before tourism plays any part of this. Initial pent up demand is going to be for people to travel either way to see family, and the current scenario of not allowing people to connect with families when the risk is so incredibly low is simply just cruel.

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#2679525 23-Mar-2021 21:42

networkn:

[Mod edit (MF): removed medical term]

Oops, quite right, sorry!

Fred99

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#2679530 23-Mar-2021 22:24

sbiddle:

Initial pent up demand is going to be for people to travel either way to see family, and the current scenario of not allowing people to connect with families when the risk is so incredibly low is simply just cruel.

Pretty sure that pent up demand will also be from "pure" tourists who outnumber family/friend and business arrivals, and overseas travelling Aussies wont have anywhere else to go for the time being.

Handle9

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#2679535 23-Mar-2021 22:30

antonknee:

I’m guessing “the right thing” is the common sense approach of not getting on the bus full of returned who may have Covid-19. However you’re quite right that the individuals are just doing what they’re allowed to do by the authorities (and are presumably told is safe enough to do).

That the authorities allow and encourage what to me is an obviously risky practice is the real issue IMO. Again, it’s a case of where do you draw the line as there’s no such thing as zero-risk.

"Common sense" would be that following the official guide lines formulated by experts would be safe. There's no suggestion of gamification here, it's a systemic issue.

Blaming people affected by systematic screw ups, when they are following the rules set by the people responsible for determining what is or is not safe, is daft.

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#2679541 23-Mar-2021 23:28

wellygary:

Total vaccinations given 38,800 includes ~34,200 first and ~4,600 with 2 doses

...

Link available for this?

DS248

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#2679551 23-Mar-2021 23:50

Near the bottom of this article (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300259776/covid19-miq-workers-family-member-tests-weak-positive-supermarket-is-location-of-interest), Hipkins says "... the daily average of people vaccinated was in the low 2000s ..."

Based on the 38,000 above and figures from https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/vaccine-tracker-how-many-kiwis-have-been-vaccinated-and-how-do-we-compare-with-the-rest-of-the-world/ENMCOHM5QW6W3UN6MRMCOQKO2U/

NZ figures for vaccine doses administered are:

3 Mar = 9431
10 Mar = ~18,000
17 Mar = ~27,500
23 Mar = ~38,800

That equates to average doses per day over the last three weeks of 1,224, 1,357, and 1,614 (6 days).

Not quite "low 2000s". Perhaps just for yesterday?

DS248

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#2679554 23-Mar-2021 23:55

DS248:

wellygary:

Total vaccinations given 38,800 includes ~34,200 first and ~4,600 with 2 doses

...

Link available for this?

OK found a vaccine tracker on Stuff site now

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300256909/covid19-vaccine-tracker-how-many-people-in-new-zealand-have-been-vaccinated

(Herald do not yet have the latest figure)

sbiddle

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#2679584 24-Mar-2021 07:50

Fred99:

sbiddle:

Initial pent up demand is going to be for people to travel either way to see family, and the current scenario of not allowing people to connect with families when the risk is so incredibly low is simply just cruel.

Pretty sure that pent up demand will also be from "pure" tourists who outnumber family/friend and business arrivals, and overseas travelling Aussies wont have anywhere else to go for the time being.

In the short term I simply don't see that happening. Assuming we do have a ~19th April start to the TT bubble I see it being a couple of months before we start to see any significant numbers of people traveling for tourism. Pricing certainly isn't going to be ideal for leisure travel, and we've already seen taxes rise by 25% on TT flights - the first $250 of a TT ticket is now tax, up from around $200 prior to Covid.

As somebody who normally visits Aussie 6-8 times per year I know a lot of people there. I know people there right now who are hesitant to come back to NZ in the short term because of the perceived higher risk of catching Covid here - you have to remember that in many parts of Australia (WA being a classic example) that their new case numbers have been significantly lower than NZ (they went 10 months with no CT) and there is certainly a perceived idea that a number of Australians have that they've done much better at handling Covid that NZ has done in recent months, and to some extent that is a justified belief.

GV27

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#2679589 24-Mar-2021 07:57

Oblivian:

This is where the cynic in me goes.. I wonder if the reason isn't due to a classification having a bearing /effect on some certain negotiations ongoing on the immediate horizon at present...

I doubt it, they're a worker at an MIQ facility - the link to the border is far clearer than it was for the LG Sky Chefs case a couple of months ago.

If you want a real sleight of hand, the 'Northland' outbreak that supposedly didn't affect Auckland, yet had locations of interest in Helensville, was pushing it.

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