2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2737692 2-Jul-2021 07:40

You complained that the rollout is slow now you cancel that and complain that the comms wasnt great? The key word is complain. You should have stated that the rollout is going well (given that we have vaccinated right to the supply level) then discussed that the comms were poor. No one would probably disagree much on that. BUT the recent topic here is the slow rollout, last on the table, and given we have vaccinated to the supply level, thats hardly correct

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#2737697 2-Jul-2021 07:51

GV27: Our response has triggered this weird brand of nationalism which I'm not quite sure I understand, especially in light of repeated issues and independent reports around contact tracing, border testing, communications and now vaccines, and saying so seems to provoke an intensely personal response from some people.

New Zealand has always had a fairly nasty inferiority complex buried under passive aggression but over covid it's gotten weird and mean. It's probably driven by fear but it's been very unpleasant to watch.

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#2737699 2-Jul-2021 07:59

Communication has in many ways been a root cause of the problem for months.. Just look at the unrealistic expectations of when many people would be vaccinated - even when group 4 was officially moved back to late July you still had many people in group 3 expecting they would be vaccinated before group 4 started and nothing was done to explain this was the case.

Wednesday's SMS messages seem to have further confused so many people, and while many are expressing total faux outrage, the simple reality is many people in group 3 are still under the impression they're going to get an invite to book in a few weeks, and that they'll be vaccinated ASAP. That simply isn't the case - the rollout plans are that many of group 3 will receive their first jab by the end of August, but there is significant overlap between group 3 and group 4 as group 3 contains 1.7m people which is the biggest group in total.

We also have so many people in group 4 that have the belief that come the end of July that they're suddenly going to be vaccinated, whereas the reality is for most people that's not going to happen and they'll be waiting at least two months until late September and all of October.

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#2737703 2-Jul-2021 08:10

sbiddle:

Wednesday's SMS messages seem to have further confused so many people, and while many are expressing total faux outrage, the simple reality is many people in group 3 are still under the impression they're going to get an invite to book in a few weeks, and that they'll be vaccinated ASAP.

Thats not correct. I got a group 3 text on Wednesday, its stated that I will be contacted again by end July to book an appointment and that vaccinations will will take until mid-September. Dont know how you got ASAP from that, I assume these texts are identical for everyone

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#2737707 2-Jul-2021 08:24

tdgeek:

sbiddle:

Wednesday's SMS messages seem to have further confused so many people, and while many are expressing total faux outrage, the simple reality is many people in group 3 are still under the impression they're going to get an invite to book in a few weeks, and that they'll be vaccinated ASAP.

Thats not correct. I got a group 3 text on Wednesday, its stated that I will be contacted again by end July to book an appointment and that vaccinations will will take until mid-September. Dont know how you got ASAP from that, I assume these texts are identical for everyone

Nope. SMS messages and the content along with the letters being sent out are all different depending on your PHO. There is nothing standardised about them.

I got the ASAP from the many hundreds of people who are expressing that very opinion online - Facebook in particular is just a huge bit cesspit right now of people moaning and arguing over things (which in fairness is just FB normally..), and in particular those who had the idea that being invited to book in a couple of weeks meant they would be getting their vaccine in a couple of weeks. There are certainly no screenshots I've seen anywhere from people that give a Sept timeframe, and if they'd included that it would have made things a lot clearer.

Lots of people in Wellington got a link in their SMS redirecting to this, which doesn't really make things any clearer https://www.rph.org.nz/public-health-topics/vaccinate-greater-wellington/

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#2737708 2-Jul-2021 08:31

Ok, mine was from vaccinatecanterburywestcoast.nz It would be poor if the Welly texts inferred book by end July and vaccinate by then also

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#2737710 2-Jul-2021 08:34

Handle9:

… If you consider New Zealand compared to other western developed countries we judge ourselves against in every other pursuit we are doing poorly.

So several posts later, having been invited to provide alternate options for a better performance, you have nothing.

Your posts are ‘I’m blowing my dogwhistle so look at me’, ‘the opposition exists just to criticise’.

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#2737719 2-Jul-2021 09:00

I agree our vaccine rollout has been slow.

It probably boils down to:

Belief that our border and systems will keep a major outbreak at bay.
Not willing to pay more back in Dec/Jan last year to jump the queue.
(for both ethical and financial reasons)
The lack of urgency in organizing things (partly because they knew they didn't need things finalized until July).

We are now locked into this path. Was the decision the right one? Probably - but if we get a major outbreak and head back into level 4 we will have made the wrong bet.
In that case some extra people will die.

Overall I personally I think it was the right call.

For those who want to feel better with rankings for vaccinations we are ahead of Taiwan, a country we often compared ourselves at the beginning of the out-break.

And for the pure money people:
If you are going to be brutal about this how much extra would we have had to spend to get the vaccines faster and how much is a human life worth.
Then look at the cost/benefit ratio.

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#2737733 2-Jul-2021 09:10

Australia hit 6.36% fully vaccinated overnight and 24.03% with their first dose. Their fully vaccinated is really starting to ramp up now that all the early AZ people are receiving their second doses.

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#2737736 2-Jul-2021 09:19

sbiddle:

Australia hit 6.36% fully vaccinated overnight and 24.03% with their first dose. Their fully vaccinated is really starting to ramp up now that all the early AZ people are receiving their second doses.

Good. Hopefully there is less chance of them spreading Covid around while they are over here.

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#2737748 2-Jul-2021 09:37

Handle9:

It's pretty simple.

If you are last in vaccinations you haven't done a good job. The rest is just excuses.

No it's not that simple. NZ doesn't have an immediate need for vaccines, thanks to the excellent work done early in the pandemic and our ongoing success with MIQ and border controls.

It's also important to recognize that until the world is fully vaccinated, there will always be a pool of infection waiting to come in and infect our population, so it's in our own interest to get the rest of the world vaccinated quickly, before a vaccine-resistant strain evolves.

We may also have got a great deal by agreeing to later shipments rather than earlier ones.

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#2737751 2-Jul-2021 09:51

Who remembers sneakernet/Aminet (where you fightclub rules traded disks of games...)

It's back. In form of Vaci-net :)

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-frustrated-pensioners-skip-vaccination-queue/BKWGA7TG6CF2J6OISBQYK7IZQI/

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#2737753 2-Jul-2021 09:54

In view of the responses here with no community transmission, I shudder to think what it would be like if we actually did have a major outbreak. Not that I think that is likely. Just think of the all-out response to that one Australian. I think we are doing pretty well, even if the communication is poor at times. I don't think it is only luck, though that probably has to do with it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2737772 2-Jul-2021 10:12

However, this has also been my experience.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2737820 2-Jul-2021 10:15

I suppose it's only human nature, but it's weird that so many people are still saying that we "should be" mostly vaccinated by now, when I can't see how that possibly could have happened - I assume it's because they are mostly looking at the US and UK vaccination numbers. It has been pointed out multiple times that those countries funded the vaccines, and more importantly, had them manufactured in their own countries with contracts that limited export until their internal needs had been met. (The EU of course also funded the vaccine but were let down by the majority of the manufacturing being done in the UK).

Israel was a test case/large scale field trial, in which huge amounts of medical data were handed over to Pfizer. This wouldn't really have been an option here due to the lack of community transmission giving less useful information, and the data sharing being problematic, especially with a drug that had not yet been approved for use here. (Australians can feel slightly more aggrieved in that Pfizer had offered to make Australia the next test case for wide-scale rollout, but Scott Morrison declined, instead preferring his Astra Zeneca "sovereign vaccine" route, which they since abandoned).

Most of the other countries with widespread rollout are either manufacturing their own vaccines or are neighbours of countries who are.

When we decided relatively early that we would mostly use Pfizer (which appears in hindsight to have been the correct decision), the only other option we had was to try to get into a bidding war to jump the queue past other countries. That would have been problematic for a number of reasons - not only would it have been very expensive, as countries with large numbers of cases understandably had more of an incentive to purchase than us, but also the hit to our international reputation/trade etc would have been massive: we would have been portrayed (quite accurately) as a covid-free country essentially bribing a corporation to let our international customers die so that we could quickly vaccinate against a disease that we had little chance of getting.

I understand that you can have issues with how the government has communicated all this (not all that well, given the quality of the communication during the early stages of the pandemic), and once the rollout is up and going in full swing there will undoubtedly be issues, but to simply state that "We should all be vaccinated by now" is simply fantasy.

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