2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2748567 23-Jul-2021 09:13

Oblivian:
Interesting. Been replaying it this morning on radio

So it's not what Air NZ said, but merely somebody who misunderstood what the message was actually saying. I didn't find the message confusing and I'm not sure how anybody else could.

Barry Soper broke the story, remember when he blamed everybody but himself for not having an ESTA for travel via the US a few years ago?

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#2748571 23-Jul-2021 09:20

cshwone:

So with no cases in the country you want to give hospitality, the live music scene , sporting events etc a massive economic hit?

I think the idea that someone suggested to MoH, was to attract the younger generation, who are probably non-plussed over getting vaccinated. Makes sense. No different to a mass vaccination event that is in South Auckland this weekend

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#2748580 23-Jul-2021 09:32

GV27:

cshwone:

So with no cases in the country you want to give hospitality, the live music scene , sporting events etc a massive economic hit?

Agreed - we will know pretty quickly when it does get here from wastewater testing which we didn't have before for large-scale outbreaks. I don't see the point in putting the cart before the horse just yet, but when it does happen, it will happen at extremely short notice. People should be prepared for that by now.

Saying I "want to" is a disingenuous distortion of what I said. I think we "need to". I hate it when people do that so they can kid themselves that I'm the enemy or whatever. Crazy people on the internet - LOL.

Sewage testing won't pick up cases until after CT is underway. Take a look at Sydney - how well has it worked there to prevent CT?

I don't think we've got a chance in hell of keeping delta out, and when it arrives at current alert level settings and complete lack of interest by the vast majority in scanning in etc, it's going to be a very big problem to nail it. Big events and the hospitality industry are going to be hit a damned sight worse by full lockdowns. I'll be absolutely thrilled if I'm proven wrong.

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#2748582 23-Jul-2021 09:39

tdgeek:
cshwone:

So with no cases in the country you want to give hospitality, the live music scene , sporting events etc a massive economic hit?

I think the idea that someone suggested to MoH, was to attract the younger generation, who are probably non-plussed over getting vaccinated. Makes sense. No different to a mass vaccination event that is in South Auckland this weekend

Vax and dance weekends?

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#2748583 23-Jul-2021 09:40

Fred99:

I don't think we've got a chance in hell of keeping delta out, and when it arrives at current alert level settings and complete lack of interest by the vast majority in scanning in etc, it's going to be a very big problem to nail it. Big events and the hospitality industry are going to be hit a damned sight worse by full lockdowns. I'll be absolutely thrilled if I'm proven wrong.

While we all want that statement to be wrong, I too am a realist and see it being inevitable and a case of when, not if. I really do hope everybody on here is prepared.

The biggest unknown is how fast we can move to level 4, there are massive legislative requirements required and the reality that we can't just simply impose level 4 immediately (as in same day, or even the following day) on a society who are largely unprepared for it.

We imposed level 2 the same day in Wellington, but my understanding is we're looking at around 48 - 72 hours from a case of CT to being able to move to level 4

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#2748639 23-Jul-2021 09:46

Agree, one would hope that given Australia, its obvious that we would have to act immediately. If we find one CT here, its already been spreading for days. We have a bunch of them anchored offshore in Bluff. You could probably literally see a Delta infected person from the shore there

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GV27

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#2748640 23-Jul-2021 09:47

Fred99:

Sewage testing won't pick up cases until after CT is underway. Take a look at Sydney - how well has it worked there to prevent CT?

Given Sydney is still at what, barely an NZ Level 3, I think once we have we'd react to it a damn sight harder than they have once we knew it was there - so I'm not sure that's a useful comparison.

We'd probably end up at L3 almost overnight whereas they're arguably not even there yet.

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#2748641 23-Jul-2021 09:50

sbiddle:

We imposed level 2 the same day in Wellington, but my understanding is we're looking at around 48 - 72 hours from a case of CT to being able to move to level 4

I'm comfortable with that - so long as the L4 is hard enough.

While that delay is going to inevitably result in increased CT before L4 starts having an impact, locking down to L4 from L1 instantly would be a nightmare.

Last year, to prepare for extended lockdown we had to do quite a few things under level 3 to get properly prepared. Get home office sorted, shift a family member home into our "bubble" etc.

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#2748646 23-Jul-2021 09:55

sbiddle:

So it's not what Air NZ said, but merely somebody who misunderstood what the message was actually saying. I didn't find the message confusing and I'm not sure how anybody else could.

Barry Soper broke the story, remember when he blamed everybody but himself for not having an ESTA for travel via the US a few years ago?

At least they also prodded for clarification. But yeah, probably didn't need to run with the alerting headline BEFORE the answer

Asked about the message, Air New Zealand general manager of customer Leeanne Langridge said it was recorded and uploaded on 5pm on Wednesday 21 July in response to large increases in call volumes.

"With Quarantine Free Travel paused from a number of Australian states, we found customers were confused about their ability to travel and the team tried to simplify the message. Unfortunately in this case the simplification has led to an incorrect message that the New Zealand Government had announced an extended pause of quarantine-free travel with Australia," Langridge said.

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#2748650 23-Jul-2021 10:06

GV27:

Fred99:

Sewage testing won't pick up cases until after CT is underway. Take a look at Sydney - how well has it worked there to prevent CT?

Given Sydney is still at what, barely an NZ Level 3, I think once we have we'd react to it a damn sight harder than they have once we knew it was there - so I'm not sure that's a useful comparison.

We'd probably end up at L3 almost overnight whereas they're arguably not even there yet.

I don't think it's done every day, then if there's a detection with high CT count (ie low concentration of viral RNA) then the "positive" isn't unequivocal - it could be the start of CT, it could be shedding from a recovered case. It could be from an infected delivery driver using public toilets when they're driving around. Low CT counts (ie from active cases) mean CT is already happening. In Sydney they already knew that anyway. It's an extra tool in the kit, but it's not going to stop CT - just show where increased vigilance/testing is needed.

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#2748654 23-Jul-2021 10:18

Fred99:

Saying I "want to" is a disingenuous distortion of what I said. I think we "need to". I hate it when people do that so they can kid themselves that I'm the enemy or whatever. Crazy people on the internet - LOL.

Sewage testing won't pick up cases until after CT is underway. Take a look at Sydney - how well has it worked there to prevent CT?

I don't think we've got a chance in hell of keeping delta out, and when it arrives at current alert level settings and complete lack of interest by the vast majority in scanning in etc, it's going to be a very big problem to nail it. Big events and the hospitality industry are going to be hit a damned sight worse by full lockdowns. I'll be absolutely thrilled if I'm proven wrong.

OK, then in your opinion we need to be a level 2 at the moment. The only point I was trying to make that the impact of doing that would be to inflict considerable economic damage on sectors of the economy that have suffered considerably over the last 15 months, as a risk reduction measure.

We have shown we can ramp up levels quickly and our level 4 is significantly stricter than the measures in place in Sydney.

So, balancing the risks is what it is about. Our current stance means that if Delta gets into the community we will have a number of cases, but the strength of our level 4 should mitigate the impact of the spread.

How long would we sit at level 2? Until no cases in Aus? People here have postulated September for that to clear. And if we did get hit we would still have to move to level 4 anyway.

To me a simpler measure would be to close the bubble totally and maintain level 1.

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GV27

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#2748655 23-Jul-2021 10:21

Looks like wastewater testing is happening once a week, according to the MOH website. Sure it is possible to increase that to 2 or 3 times if we feel there is substantial risk and if we're going to use it as a backstop.

What is the current equivalent of Sydney's lockdown anyway? It seems like L3 but it's not.

It's sure as hell no L4.

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#2748660 23-Jul-2021 10:38

Did I hear correctly that 3 seamen from the ship docked in Invercargill who have tested negative have been allowed ashore even though the rest of the crew are positive and are staying on the ship?

Shouldn't they be in MIQ if they have come ashore?

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#2748663 23-Jul-2021 10:44

SJB:

Did I hear correctly that 3 seamen from the ship docked in Invercargill who have tested negative have been allowed ashore even though the rest of the crew are positive and are staying on the ship?

Shouldn't they be in MIQ if they have come ashore?

I freaking hope not

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#2748666 23-Jul-2021 10:51

Oblivian:

sbiddle:

So it's not what Air NZ said, but merely somebody who misunderstood what the message was actually saying. I didn't find the message confusing and I'm not sure how anybody else could.

Barry Soper broke the story, remember when he blamed everybody but himself for not having an ESTA for travel via the US a few years ago?

At least they also prodded for clarification. But yeah, probably didn't need to run with the alerting headline BEFORE the answer

Asked about the message, Air New Zealand general manager of customer Leeanne Langridge said it was recorded and uploaded on 5pm on Wednesday 21 July in response to large increases in call volumes.

"With Quarantine Free Travel paused from a number of Australian states, we found customers were confused about their ability to travel and the team tried to simplify the message. Unfortunately in this case the simplification has led to an incorrect message that the New Zealand Government had announced an extended pause of quarantine-free travel with Australia," Langridge said.

I think they're being overly apologetic for something that I personally don't think was incorrect - it was only incorrect if you interpreted it that way!

The message has now been updated and says "travel pause from some states in Australia" rather than "travel pause from Australia".

While the specific temporary message may have only been uploaded last night, the temporary message for the past week was very similar and I don't recall it making any mention of "some states".

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