2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2750020 26-Jul-2021 16:34

Benoire:

You can't yet vaccinate kids below 16. Do we know what the impact will be on them yet? I've got an 8y and a 5y old and you know what kids are like at school, can't social distance! Any opening up of NZ without effective controls for kids is effectively turning a blind eye to their health to a certain extent given we do not know the long term impact of a covid infection on the body (long covid etc.).

Pfizer vaccine is approved for 12 - 18 year olds in some jurisdictions already, there is no reason to suppose it won't approved in NZ in a fairly short time, certainly this year.
There are trials going on overseas for Covid-19 vaccines in 5 - 12 year olds.
Based on that, there is likely to be coverage of five and overs by this time next year, quite likely quicker.

However, even that will leave the under-school-age population unprotected, and anyone who has ever had a child in an Early Childhood Education Centre, Playschool or Kindergarten will know what a Petri dish they are for infections of all kinds.

So eventually, either Covid-19 will just fizzle out - this looks unlikely a.t.m. - or it will become an endemic illness requiring annual boosters like the flu shots so many of us have had for years, and which will kill a small proportion of the population, mostly the unvaccinated, every year, sort of like a bad flu epidemic most winters. Ugh

tdgeek

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#2750023 26-Jul-2021 16:43

Benoire:

You can't yet vaccinate kids below 16. Do we know what the impact will be on them yet? I've got an 8y and a 5y old and you know what kids are like at school, can't social distance! Any opening up of NZ without effective controls for kids is effectively turning a blind eye to their health to a certain extent given we do not know the long term impact of a covid infection on the body (long covid etc.).

Fully agree. Im just being devils advocate. Many see vaccines as the cure. Many also say we need to treat this as endemic (well, it already is) and get vaccinated and live with it. Boris has been castigated as he is living with it with the population nit fully vaccinated, which infers vaccinate then open up. There are only two options. Stay as we are for 5+ years or get vaccinated and live in an endemic. Delta does change that a lot. Vaccines from what I read here today fade over time. So we may need a booster vaccine, another 5 million rollout, and Delta and what comes after that may mean a new vaccine and new rollouts .MIQ becomes permanent. International tourism both ways ceases. If we were dealing with Covid Alpha, opening up is very doable. Kids rarely get affected. But thats not the case anymore. Also from what I read here, Covid in NZ (MIQ, any arrivals) is all Delta.

Kids. The US is looking at 12yo and up. Im not sure why all kids cannot get vaccinated, are vaccines a risk to them? Or no one has been brave enough to test? Kids got them for MMR for example.

empacher48

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#2750024 26-Jul-2021 16:48

Main reason kids under 12 can’t be vaccinated for COVID yet is the trials to workout their dosage and effectiveness haven’t been completed yet. Pfizer hoping to have emergency use in the USA approved by October. So probably be early next year for 5 to 11 year olds here in NZ.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210702/pfizer-seeking-vaccination-approval-for-ages-5-to-11-years-old-by-fall

wellygary

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#2750026 26-Jul-2021 16:51

tdgeek:

Kids. The US is looking at 12yo and up. Im not sure why all kids cannot get vaccinated, are vaccines a risk to them? Or no one has been brave enough to test? Kids got them for MMR for example.

Because there have been no trials with lower aged kids finished yet.... there are apparently 6-12 kids being trialled now... with results expected Sept/October....

Its a bit like the whole, "we don't recommend to vaccinated for COVID if you are pregnant" which was was advice 3 months ago... Its wasn't because of any higher risk, it was just that there wasn't good trial data available...

Despite what Anti-Vaxxers would say, the rollout is not throwing caution to the wind with regard to clinical trial testing...

Oblivian

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#2750042 26-Jul-2021 17:27

Benoire: Any opening up of NZ without effective controls for kids is effectively turning a blind eye to their health to a certain extent given we do not know the long term impact of a covid infection on the body (long covid etc.).

Across the ditch this is exactly what is being called for. Primary and early year schooling opening during this 'lockdown' (that isnt) similar to how we did at lvl3?

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#2750043 26-Jul-2021 17:30

Visitors arrived, asked to produce negative covid test, didn't know about it

Requested to fly straight back to brisbane but told no and bussed to mandatory 14 day quarantine

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/125855105/planned-4day-skiing-holiday-turns-into-14days-hotel-confinement-for-australian-couple

ezbee

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#2750097 26-Jul-2021 17:47

Batman: Visitors arrived, asked to produce negative covid test, didn't know about it

Requested to fly straight back to brisbane but told no and bussed to mandatory 14 day quarantine

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/125855105/planned-4day-skiing-holiday-turns-into-14days-hotel-confinement-for-australian-couple

So its 14 days of this.

https://www.redbull.com/se-en/the-best-skiing-snowboarding-games-of-all-time-snow

Don't tell me , they only see the news in their Facebook feed.

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Batman

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#2750098 26-Jul-2021 17:48

Apparently they checked everywhere before coming over

Geektastic

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#2750100 26-Jul-2021 17:53

Batman: Apparently they checked everywhere before coming over

Sounds unlikely.

I can't believe they were not notified at check in and that a lack of the required tests did not simply result in Do Not Board status.

Oblivian

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#2750105 26-Jul-2021 18:03

Blaming air new zealand?

Didn't try very hard. This is on .com.au

It took 3 clicks. But it's all right there. The left image is on the find flights screen. The right 2 are click through

I did warn the likelyhood of Australian side doing checks would be low like the news articles reported. That's why we have a team now going.

Fyi, the counter staff at airports. Isn't always directly employed staff. But agencies that provide the service and have multiple uniforms.

sbiddle

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#2750184 26-Jul-2021 21:07

Oblivian:
alasta:

Where transmission has occurred in supermarkets in Sydney it would be interesting to know whether masks were worn.

Yes. One of the Early cases were quickly found via scan/cctv that 2 were at the same supermarket. Masked (even qld you cant go to a mall without one) but never interacted

I think I posted something in here last week about the concerns now with face coverings vs masks.

The reality right now is that Australia is actually an amazing lab experiment for delta. With full genomic sequencing on just about every case and case numbers that are small enough to be tracked they are pretty much establishing where the CT is occuring for most cases.

One of the real concerns is that DIY face coverings are basically terrible when it comes to offering protection. They may minimise super long long range droplet or aerosol spread if you sneeze or exhale, but they actually do very little in the way of offering protection for somebody wearing one since the fabrics most people use are simply not capable of filtering those virus particles.

If somebody next to you has Covid and exhales droplets, a basic homemade face covering will offer very minimal protection.

sbiddle

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#2750185 26-Jul-2021 21:14

PolicyGuy:

Benoire:

You can't yet vaccinate kids below 16. Do we know what the impact will be on them yet? I've got an 8y and a 5y old and you know what kids are like at school, can't social distance! Any opening up of NZ without effective controls for kids is effectively turning a blind eye to their health to a certain extent given we do not know the long term impact of a covid infection on the body (long covid etc.).

Pfizer vaccine is approved for 12 - 18 year olds in some jurisdictions already, there is no reason to suppose it won't approved in NZ in a fairly short time, certainly this year.
There are trials going on overseas for Covid-19 vaccines in 5 - 12 year olds.
Based on that, there is likely to be coverage of five and overs by this time next year, quite likely quicker.

Pfizer was approved here in NZ for 12-16yr olds in June

Whether there will be any vaccines ultimately given globally to those under 12 is another story entirely. Yes there are current Pfizer and Moderna trials of 5-11yr olds and some vaccine trails starting for under that, but there are plenty of risks particularly around the myocarditis issue. It should not be assumed just because the trial is happening that we will see vaccines certified soon for children, it may actually be deemed that the risks outweight benefits particularly for mRNA based vaccines. There might be newer 2nd generation vaccines that could be better suited.

Oblivian

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#2750194 26-Jul-2021 21:37

sbiddle: They may minimise super long long range droplet or aerosol spread if you sneeze or exhale, but they actually do very little in the way of offering protection for somebody wearing one since the fabrics most people use are simply not capable of filtering those virus particles.

If somebody next to you has Covid and exhales droplets, a basic homemade face covering will offer very minimal protection.

Surely you can't taint them all with the same brush?. I mean, droplets would indicate they had weight or a mass and therefore not just be 'air' that can pass through?

For instance, most mine are from a tripple layer pattern, different material. Oppositely folded seams, over most my cheeks and move in and out with a breath they're that sealed.

Meanwhile the official original cdc issued ones i received from a US customer, hardly cover, dual layer thick cotton (underwear material) with some apparently magical silver nitrate coating, good for about 6 washes each. Labelled as 'breathable'

https://www.hanes.com/maskn2.html

Sure, an N95 is more likely to stop you breathing something in. But your mucus loving eyeballs are nicely exposed even if you had one. I would like to think enough people making the effort to stop em going out, would reduce the need for all of us to need a N95 for the 'in'. That's how they sell it in a lot of places. 'wearing mine protects you, you wearing protects me'

Minus the wallies wearing a thin bike mesh buff just to meet requirements..

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#2750281 26-Jul-2021 23:21

We are very lucky in our little bubble. It's beginning to feel like a calm before the storm scenario.

Fred99

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#2750282 26-Jul-2021 23:21

sbiddle:

Pfizer was approved here in NZ for 12-16yr olds in June

Whether there will be any vaccines ultimately given globally to those under 12 is another story entirely. Yes there are current Pfizer and Moderna trials of 5-11yr olds and some vaccine trails starting for under that, but there are plenty of risks particularly around the myocarditis issue. It should not be assumed just because the trial is happening that we will see vaccines certified soon for children, it may actually be deemed that the risks outweight benefits particularly for mRNA based vaccines. There might be newer 2nd generation vaccines that could be better suited.

Yup. There's a difficult medical ethics question WRT vaccinating young children. The risk of side effects is very low, but the risk of severe disease is probably even lower (even with delta). There's no evidence of long duration of protection (ie unlike most other childhood vaccinations) for any age group. IOW by the time they're at an age where C-19 is a risk, the vaccine they had when young kids may have no impact at all on immunity when they're 12 or 16 or whatever.

There may be a "public health benefit" but quantifying that's not known either. Risk of transmission between young kids seems low, risk to the community seems to have been low. Vaccination "just in case" might be an overreaction and have bad consequences.

Everybody wants absolute definitive answers - and they want those answers right now. But there aren't any.

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