Technofreak:

 

How do they feel about being thrown off the flight or arrested at the destination?

 

Except it never happens.

The problem is people are fully within their rights not to wear a mask if they don't want to - the law says this. They also aren't required to explain why. Air NZ can't make them wear a mask, nor can they ask why.

The little card is readily available for download from most disability websites https://abcnz.org.nz/news-and-events/exemptions-for-face-coverings-and-masks/

Maybe there's a reason for not enforcing mask policies, not requiring scanning/signing in, not planning on implementing a restriction/card passport system etc.

I'm struggling to think of a reason, but maybe it's based on expectation that the "be kind" message will work and that the alternative - if harsh rules are signalled - is poking the beast.

I think "official" count of anti-vaxxers is something like 9%.  But I think that's based on childhood vaccine uptake, and it's either not enough or at best borderline for "herd immunity" for measles.

I think covid anti-vaxxers are going to be higher in numbers, and much more active.  Not just woo-woo sandal wearing herbalists and evangelical "Jesus will save us" fringe church groups, but a coalition with a hard-core group of organised right-wing "freedumb warriors" - who as seen in Aus will still turn up in their thousands to actively sabotage lockdowns whilst knowingly deliberately spreading the virus.  They turn up to fight despite promises being made that they will be caught and arrested and punished.

sbiddle:

 

Yes and no. I agree that there should be greater eligibility, but right now there isn't the capacity right now to vaccinate everybody.

 

Australia have decided now that vaccinating younger people is key - I've argued this for months now that once the at risk are vaccinated that we shouldn't stick to age brackets.

 

Our criteria does seem a bit odd.

A friend of mine in their early 30s was vaccinated in Chch weeks ago (during the 65+ age band) purely because they are of Maori descent with no underlying health conditions.

Fred99:

 

I think covid anti-vaxxers are going to be higher in numbers, and much more active.  Not just woo-woo sandal wearing herbalists and evangelical "Jesus will save us" fringe church groups, but a coalition with a hard-core group of organised right-wing "freedumb warriors" - who as seen in Aus will still turn up in their thousands to actively sabotage lockdowns whilst knowingly deliberately spreading the virus.  They turn up to fight despite promises being made that they will be caught and arrested and punished.

 

I agree. There does seem to be some organising going onl. Anti-vax/anti-mask is seen by some as a way to express their unhappiness with the "communist dictatorship" symbolised by Jacinda Ardern, with a subtext of destabilising the government. Doing nothing means it continues, but enforcing the law (and good sense) plays into their hands as a "dictatorial crackdown" and moves more moderate right-wingers further to the right. It stinks like Whale Oil to me.

frankv:

 

Fred99:

 

I think covid anti-vaxxers are going to be higher in numbers, and much more active.  Not just woo-woo sandal wearing herbalists and evangelical "Jesus will save us" fringe church groups, but a coalition with a hard-core group of organised right-wing "freedumb warriors" - who as seen in Aus will still turn up in their thousands to actively sabotage lockdowns whilst knowingly deliberately spreading the virus.  They turn up to fight despite promises being made that they will be caught and arrested and punished.

 

 

I agree. There does seem to be some organising going onl. Anti-vax/anti-mask is seen by some as a way to express their unhappiness with the "communist dictatorship" symbolised by Jacinda Ardern, with a subtext of destabilising the government. Doing nothing means it continues, but enforcing the law (and good sense) plays into their hands as a "dictatorial crackdown" and moves more moderate right-wingers further to the right. It stinks like Whale Oil to me.

 

 

 

just accidentally bumped into an online forum of very very rich people who are non religious and they are militant anti vaxxers.

you guys gonna have problems i reckon.

p/s not met anyone religious who's anti vax yet. heard of them, but so far, not came across any.

Port of Tauranga situation seems less than ideal. Wonder if we'll hear more about that at 1pm. 

Batman:

 

just accidentally bumped into an online forum of very very rich people who are non religious and they are militant anti vaxxers.

 

Well if they are from NZ then they are gonna have to get used to Domestic tourism, because its becoming very clear that international travel is gonna require a Vax passport for at least the next year or so...  and that will likely include cruising...

wellygary:

 

Batman:

 

just accidentally bumped into an online forum of very very rich people who are non religious and they are militant anti vaxxers.

 

 

Well if they are from NZ then they are gonna have to get used to Domestic tourism, because its becoming very clear that international travel is gonna require a Vax passport for at least the next year or so...  and that will likely include cruising...

 

 

 

i see them as a sacrifice for the human race. but it will take a while as there's no covid. maybe they will get fake passports. anything's possible.

GV27:

 

Port of Tauranga situation seems less than ideal. Wonder if we'll hear more about that at 1pm. 

 

Link to story on Stuff:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126010602/tauranga-port-workers-sent-home-after-covid19-cases-found-on-visiting-cargo-ship

GV27:

 

Port of Tauranga situation seems less than ideal. Wonder if we'll hear more about that at 1pm. 

 

We'll probably hear as much as we need to unless it was spread to the community.

sbiddle:

 

The problem is people are fully within their rights not to wear a mask if they don't want to - the law says this. They also aren't required to explain why. Air NZ can't make them wear a mask, nor can they ask why.

 

The little card is readily available for download from most disability websites https://abcnz.org.nz/news-and-events/exemptions-for-face-coverings-and-masks/

 

 

 

The law doesn't say that, at least not anywhere I can find. You have to have a valid reason not to wear a mask, not wanting to wear it isn't a valid reason.

As far as I can tell the information on the site you linked that says you are exempt from wearing face coverings on passenger flights throughout New Zealand is incorrect. It doesn't match any information on the CAA website. All the information points to mask being a requirement unless you have a valid reason. In fact the CAA information among other things says this, 

51. Transport operators may, however, choose to stop passengers boarding, where it is lawful to do so on health and safety grounds as per their standard operating procedures. 

Air New Zealand or any other airline may not be able to make them wear a mask but they have the ability to deny boarding.

There is also the little gem in the CAA rules that passengers must comply with crew instructions. Non compliance means risking being disembarked or met by authorities on arrival at the destination and possible arrest. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

cshwone: I believe we are beyond prioritizing any particular group for vaccinations now. If there are spare slots just fill them by getting rid of artificial criteria and opening up to all.

There doesn't appear to be any shortage of vaccines

Correct there is no shortage of vaccines. We currently have about 250k in the freezer, and 350k or so a week turning up from pfizer, while our weekly vaccination rate is about 250k, so that stockpile in the freezers is growing fast.

The bottle neck is capacity in vaccination centers. It is understandably taking some time to ramp up in capacity from 150k doses a week to a supply matching 350k doses a week (by the time we get their we might have enough stockpile to take it up to 450k doses a week for a month or so). It does seem that more vaccination centers (pharmacies, GP's clinics etc) are coming on line each week.

I support continuing with a prioritization system For the following reasons

• Opening up to everybody at this stage would result in a multi month wait for appointments. The last thing we want is for an eligible person to go to book, and balking at the wait time, sharing the bad experience, and potentially never trying again.
• Also could lead to the situation where some vaccination centers have 3 month wait's, but vaccination centers which appointment slots went live after the "everybody book now" day have not enough bookings - spreading out bookings over time should fill in these slots opened later at new centers, assuming people shop a few locations in the booking tool.
• People like to feel special - Saying hey, its your turn now, get in before we open up to the next groups, could result in higher turnout than just saying, that it is open to everybody and to book whenever you want.
• Any fault with the booking system (say all appointments lost) will have a lesser impact if there are 1m bookings instead of 6m bookings.
• Regular tranches opening up means regular media attention, and free promotion of the vaccination program.

Should note the government has proven not to be gushy regarding moving age groups eligibility forwards when appointment availability is higher than expected.

And also should note that for people that really want to be vaccinated for some reason but are not yet eligible to book, vaccines are readily available as walk in's for all ages 16+at certain times or at certain vaccination centers, shared by informal networks etc. Was an article about this with a negitive hue, a couple of days ago - But my take is that vaccination centers with spare capacity are actively encouraging this.

I would make the following changes to the roll out:

• Move minimum dose spacing to 6 weeks, and recommended / default spacing to 8 weeks. - Evidence of better protection, and gives the option of panic vaccinating all those 3+ weeks plus after their first dose in a certain area in the event of an outbreak.
• Put people who would need to work outside of their home in level 4 as the next tranche. If we have a delta outbreak, these groups were a major cause of spread in the NSW lockdown -  Self policing is fine - doesn't matter at all if 50 - 100k people piggy back on this group despite questionable eligibility.

And of course we need to keep pushing hard to get the dose rate up to something like 400k a week. We have stock now, and in my eyes this is literally a race against our next covid-19 leak from MIQ, marine border etc. This could come at any time...

Batman:

 

just accidentally bumped into an online forum of very very rich people who are non religious and they are militant anti vaxxers.

 

I believe that while the hard-right is being enabled by some "very rich people", there's a very socially conservative working/middle class demographic from which the anti-vax, anti-lockdown groups are coming.  It's exactly the same demographic that became the marching shrieking red hat-wearing Trumpers in the US.  And it absolutely does include "prosperity theology" religious groups.

And it's causing many of the issues they're seeing in Sydney with non-compliance with lockdown rules in certain areas.

It's not appearing in "wealthy/conservative" areas, the "movement" may be dog-whistled by a few wealthy / high profile lobbyists and idiots in the media, but it's targeting the uneducated.

MaxineN:

 

We'll probably hear as much as we need to unless it was spread to the community.

 

I'm keen to know why people are being cleared to go back into the community when it turns out they could still pose a risk, given the work that has gone into tightening up Port worker testing and vaccinations.

I shudder to think what our response would look like if we were only ever told what someone decided we 'needed' to know.