2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Max
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#2757024 9-Aug-2021 11:14

GV27:

MaxineN:

We'll probably hear as much as we need to unless it was spread to the community.

I'm keen to know why people are being cleared to go back into the community when it turns out they could still pose a risk, given the work that has gone into tightening up Port worker testing and vaccinations.

I shudder to think what our response would look like if we were only ever told what someone decided we 'needed' to know.

Unfortunately I'm not the director general of health or the minister of health so I too also disagree with only telling people what we need to know. Knowing everything at what happened, timeline, stats, how the crew is doing and what decisions were made and the reasons why would be very nice.

Also being cleared to go back into the community is only if they provide negative test results(unsure how many they need to provide) from reading the article but again I also agree it's still a risk.

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

Technofreak

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#2757025 9-Aug-2021 11:16

GV27:

MaxineN:

We'll probably hear as much as we need to unless it was spread to the community.

I'm keen to know why people are being cleared to go back into the community when it turns out they could still pose a risk, given the work that has gone into tightening up Port worker testing and vaccinations.

I shudder to think what our response would look like if we were only ever told what someone decided we 'needed' to know.

You don't think that's been happening already?

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GV27

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#2757030 9-Aug-2021 11:24

Technofreak:

You don't think that's been happening already?

That bar is pretty low, I suspect the flow of information is now night and day ahead of where it was this time last year.

Dratsab

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#2757035 9-Aug-2021 11:34

Technofreak: The law doesn't say that, at least not anywhere I can find. You have to have a valid reason not to wear a mask, not wanting to wear it isn't a valid reason.

As far as I can tell the information on the site you linked that says you are exempt from wearing face coverings on passenger flights throughout New Zealand is incorrect. It doesn't match any information on the CAA website. All the information points to mask being a requirement unless you have a valid reason. In fact the CAA information among other things says this,

51. Transport operators may, however, choose to stop passengers boarding, where it is lawful to do so on health and safety grounds as per their standard operating procedures.

Air New Zealand or any other airline may not be able to make them wear a mask but they have the ability to deny boarding.

There is also the little gem in the CAA rules that passengers must comply with crew instructions. Non compliance means risking being disembarked or met by authorities on arrival at the destination and possible arrest. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

Non compliance with crew instructions is a summary offence and arrest is only an option if the person refuses to give their details to police, if police are called. When police do attend such matters they can issue an unruly passenger infringement offence notice - $600 off the top of my head.

People can claim to have a medical exemption for not wearing masks but there is no requirement for them to furnish proof of this exemption, they can simply they have a medical condition which precludes them from wearing one. The lack of requirement of proof confounds the concept of enforcement.

DS248

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#2757036 9-Aug-2021 11:40

Along the line of points made by Batman a week or two ago.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/opinions/how-to-move-people-from-hesitant-to-vaccinated-bregman-jacobson/index.html

Dratsab

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#2757037 9-Aug-2021 11:44

Fred99: I believe that while the hard-right is being enabled by some "very rich people", there's a very socially conservative working/middle class demographic from which the anti-vax, anti-lockdown groups are coming. It's exactly the same demographic that became the marching shrieking red hat-wearing Trumpers in the US. And it absolutely does include "prosperity theology" religious groups.

Having, until recently, been working with someone that falls into the above category your talking about, I quite believe what you're saying here. Got some friends on Facebook too that fall into this camp and they're making plenty of "communist government" and anti-lockdown style noise. I've gotten sick of a couple and have unfriended them. More to come methinks. Basket cases.

sbiddle

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#2757040 9-Aug-2021 11:48

frankv:

Fred99:

I think covid anti-vaxxers are going to be higher in numbers, and much more active. Not just woo-woo sandal wearing herbalists and evangelical "Jesus will save us" fringe church groups, but a coalition with a hard-core group of organised right-wing "freedumb warriors" - who as seen in Aus will still turn up in their thousands to actively sabotage lockdowns whilst knowingly deliberately spreading the virus. They turn up to fight despite promises being made that they will be caught and arrested and punished.

I agree. There does seem to be some organising going onl. Anti-vax/anti-mask is seen by some as a way to express their unhappiness with the "communist dictatorship" symbolised by Jacinda Ardern, with a subtext of destabilising the government. Doing nothing means it continues, but enforcing the law (and good sense) plays into their hands as a "dictatorial crackdown" and moves more moderate right-wingers further to the right. It stinks like Whale Oil to me.

You can't place a political tag on anti vaxxer / anti maskers. They are from across the political spectrum.

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Fred99

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#2757068 9-Aug-2021 12:06

sbiddle:

You can't place a political tag on anti vaxxer / anti maskers. They are from across the political spectrum.

The ones that post antivaxx comments on social media, scream that Jacinda is a communist, and carry stupid "mask exemption cards", and will march in protest for their "freedumb" when we lock down?

Errr.. - nope. They are not from "across the political spectrum" at all.

wellygary

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#2757076 9-Aug-2021 12:27

Fred99:

sbiddle:

You can't place a political tag on anti vaxxer / anti maskers. They are from across the political spectrum.

The ones that post antivaxx comments on social media, scream that Jacinda is a communist, and carry stupid "mask exemption cards", and will march in protest for their "freedumb" when we lock down?

Errr.. - nope. They are not from "across the political spectrum" at all.

They would be screaming "John key is a Nazi/fascist" if he was in power and implementing the same policy...

frankv

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#2757077 9-Aug-2021 12:27

sbiddle:

frankv:

I agree. There does seem to be some organising going onl. Anti-vax/anti-mask is seen by some as a way to express their unhappiness with the "communist dictatorship" symbolised by Jacinda Ardern, with a subtext of destabilising the government. Doing nothing means it continues, but enforcing the law (and good sense) plays into their hands as a "dictatorial crackdown" and moves more moderate right-wingers further to the right. It stinks like Whale Oil to me.

You can't place a political tag on anti vaxxer / anti maskers. They are from across the political spectrum.

Whilst there are no doubt a number of left-wing anti-vaxxers / anti-maskers, I believe that there is a concerted effort to conflate anti-vaxism/anti-maskism with resisting the "communist dictatorship" e.g. labeling masks as oppressive and therefore wearing of masks as being acceptance of oppression. So not wearing a mask is a *political* statement. And a bunch of pseudo-science or outright false soundbites ("masks give you bacterial pneumonia according to Fauci", "masks are ineffective", "masks encourage criminal behaviour") is provided to throw at anyone who challenges them.

Batman

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#2757083 9-Aug-2021 12:40

DS248:
Along the line of points made by Batman a week or two ago.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/opinions/how-to-move-people-from-hesitant-to-vaccinated-bregman-jacobson/index.html

I've recently come across some militants from the factions. They are not nice and not easy to deal with. Do not engage them. I repeat, do not engage.

Fred99

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#2757099 9-Aug-2021 13:11

283 new cases in NSW

349 in hospital, 67 in ICU, 29 on ventilators.

One more death.

ezbee

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#2757103 9-Aug-2021 13:24

Fred99:

283 new cases in NSW

349 in hospital, 67 in ICU, 29 on ventilators.

One more death.

I'm guessing that if you need any urgent but elective Hospital treatment for cancer and various chronic conditions in NSW you are SOL.
Probably emergency department usual car crashes falling off ladders etc, will be getting a lesser level of staffing and care.

Dunedin Hospital said it was at the limit with 2 cases, hopefully the crew on the container ship don't get worse and we have to treat them.

Oblivian

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#2757104 9-Aug-2021 13:24

Looks like NSW and Queensland have started the school week off with targeted jab centres in operation too. NSW doing students while Queensland has some closed for a period still, or notices out of intention to start with the teachers and mask requirements.

Oblivian

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#2757106 9-Aug-2021 13:30

ezbee:

I'm guessing that if you need any urgent but elective Hospital treatment for cancer and various chronic conditions in NSW you are SOL.
Probably emergency department usual car crashes falling off ladders etc, will be getting a lesser level of staffing and care.

Dunedin Hospital said it was at the limit with 2 cases, hopefully the crew on the container ship don't get worse and we have to treat them.

One of the hospitals over there (can't recall region) has a new hospital with a dedicated transormable pandemic wing. So they were confident they can play chess and manage.

However, even showing up to support someone you have taken in leads to bad things. https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-nsw-update-mum-with-covid19-sparks-sydney-hospital-scare-after-trying-to-visit-son/4c2dc19e-0618-44aa-81be-a8faff6dad3b

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