2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2796268 16-Oct-2021 18:07

arcon:

The police commissioner needs to resign.

Would it be accurate that some individual rights have already been [justifiably] altered by the Health Act and/or the Civil Defense Emergency Act? In that case "right to protest" is the most nothing & irresponsible argument I can think of for allowing this.

If there is political pressure to this end then the commissioner needs to front up, but in any case this is completely unacceptable.

Im not a lawyer or a police officer, but if it was that simple.. We have the Rule of Law, and we have statutes. Police dont judge they enforce within those confines. The legal system judges. If it was that simple we just mop them all up, but this isn't PRNK

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#2796269 16-Oct-2021 18:10

I think this day should have been to push the first jabs. If you have had the first jab there is a high chance you will get your second. It's the no jabs the need to chase. Phone calls, door knocks, people walking the streets etc.

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#2796270 16-Oct-2021 18:11

Oblivian:
MaxineN: Isn't this technically a breach bail conditions and another breach of the health act?

Correct me if I'm wrong but uh this is what got him charged last time.

They've marketed today as 'a picnic'. Which outside of akl is totally legit.

There's been some BS they've leaned on for the akl one that they think gets around his conditions.

Yep legal technicalities. And probably justified in the normal world or normal people. So, in this abnormal time, people lean on the legal system. What can we do? Maybe he will find his support wanes? But OTOH he is clearly a marketing genius.

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#2796271 16-Oct-2021 18:14

GV27:

They got A jab.

We still need to see some breakdowns of how many 1st jabs actually get done today, and then people need to remember that anyone who only gets their first today is five weeks away from being fully protected.

The focus of today needed to be on 1st jabs, not on the total.

IMO the cases need to be spelled out as x are unvaccinated and Y are vaccinated. That would confirm to us that vaccines are the tool of choice, and help others see that they need to join. It wont be eliminated. So, join, and be part of the 99% that avoid pain and death.

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#2796272 16-Oct-2021 18:17

huckster:

Earlier in the day I think it was about 1/4 were first jabs.

Thats quite huge. Those that are in the 88 or whatever percent that have one jab are no issue. Its the others, so the more that get the first jab (which by default means they will be fully vaccinated in 3 to 6 weeks (plus the extra 2 weeks) is the deal

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#2796274 16-Oct-2021 18:20

rugrat:

A few thousand protesting in Auckland again. Police just observing illegal behaviour again.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-thousands-at-auckland-rally-brian-tamaki-speaks-police-keep-distance/NYPJ6ETBX2UA6I5ZXBO5EKEFDI/

“Police recognise and respect people's lawful right to protest – however will continue to encourage people to adhere to the alert level restrictions," police said in a statement.“

Even with the arrest of Brian Tamaki for previous protest, he is out in protest again, completely ineffective legal system in enforcing the health orders. People can do what they like if there is no enforcement.

I agree but I dont. What I bolded. You can't arrest people if there is a legal right. Democracy is fair, but then you get this. PRNK would handle this issue very very well, but do we want that?

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#2796275 16-Oct-2021 18:21

GV27:

cokemaster:

I understand that politically the police and government do not want scenes of police breaking up rule breakers… but still the point remains.

I am at the point where if someone tazers Brian Tamaki, I will vote for them.

If they cross beams maybe they can send him back to the dead zone.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2796276 16-Oct-2021 18:22

ezbee:

If only disobeying health orders in a pandemic automatically revoked your organizations tax free status.
Apparently submission of accounts required by regulations has not be chased up as it should with some charities too.

I agree 100% but I doubt that's in the Statute.

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#2796278 16-Oct-2021 18:24

Batman:

does anyone know if KFC has extended free KFC promotion since the vaxathon goes to 8pm?

Not sure, but check Fox News/Herald if its that big a deal....

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#2796279 16-Oct-2021 18:26

HelloThere:

I think this day should have been to push the first jabs. If you have had the first jab there is a high chance you will get your second. It's the no jabs the need to chase. Phone calls, door knocks, people walking the streets etc.

? Off course its about 1st jabs. maybe some 2nd's jumped on the hype bandwagon but its all about 1st jabs.

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#2796284 16-Oct-2021 18:56

This was a good day.

Big thanks to MP Dr Shane Reti donning PPE and joining in as a vaccinator. You're a good bugger. Thanks. (apology for politics - but this is the way it should work).

If the media would now ignore Tamaki and others in the hard-core Lunatic Fringe - we'll be okay. While their reports on these nutters consistently condemn them - they're basically attention-seeking trolls and the media is being played by them. Don't feed the trolls.

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#2796285 16-Oct-2021 19:03

Fred99:

This was a good day.

Big thanks to MP Dr Shane Reti donning PPE and joining in as a vaccinator. You're a good bugger. Thanks. (apology for politics - but this is the way it should work).

If the media would now ignore Tamaki and others in the hard-core Lunatic Fringe - we'll be okay. While their reports on these nutters consistently condemn them - they're basically attention-seeking trolls and the media is being played by them. Don't feed the trolls.

100%. News is the new vaccinators. Or the cat rescued by firemen, not "that" person.

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#2796286 16-Oct-2021 19:08

tdgeek:

Fred99:

This was a good day.

Big thanks to MP Dr Shane Reti donning PPE and joining in as a vaccinator. You're a good bugger. Thanks. (apology for politics - but this is the way it should work).

If the media would now ignore Tamaki and others in the hard-core Lunatic Fringe - we'll be okay. While their reports on these nutters consistently condemn them - they're basically attention-seeking trolls and the media is being played by them. Don't feed the trolls.

100%. News is the new vaccinators. Or the cat rescued by firemen, not "that" person.

Completely agree. Shame it wasn't 4 months ago.

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#2796294 16-Oct-2021 19:56

Wasnt it 30k of the 125k were 1st vax? Auck needed 30k and got 8k I think, wasnt paying full attention.

"The maximum penalty for breaching the COVID-19 order is six months in prison or a fine not exceeding $4000." Its not the law that is the problem, it is that it is not being enforced, that is the problem. As Arcon correctly pointed out there are zero consequences. Its not the average police persons fault, they are clearly following instruction, and its probably not the commissioners fault, probably being told how to handle it.

Anti-lockdown protest: Police promise 'prosecution action' against organisers
Explain to the people who are doing the right thing why (mostly adults) 1000s are allowed to do break the rule and there are zero consequences! If it is poltical, then that needs to be ousted and whoever has put the hard word on be ousted for doing so.

And its not just protestors. IMO if you going to be walking passed mass groups within 1-2ft, a mask should be mandated, which means essentially masks worn in public.

Explain to the people of Auckland why at 8 cases we stated it was working (which it was, elimination), then few weeks later do a 180, completely ignoring the advice of many experts and modeling, then have the cheek to say Ardern admits case numbers 'beyond what we have expected'. Explain if it was not political, who flapped up with the expert advice and made the decision and who got the modeling horribly wrong. Man up and give the public of Auckland what they deserve, truth and transparency. I don't want to be political, but its hard not to when this pandemic appears to be 100% political.

Likewise, what is happening with the Hospitals, ICU's and ICU staff that we were clearly going to need a year ago. Start doing and saying "something". Not high level traffic lights (which I personally think made more sense to start) and 3 stage plans that have no delineation and of which are worthless now given how "unexpected" Delta was to the decision maker.

What is happening to target the demographics which were identified in the outbreak 6 weeks ago, nothing.

Auckland (and now subsequent smaller regions) have become the petri dish of choice to buy time to do obvious things that needed starting 12 months ago. That is why the people of Auckland, especially the vulnerable, deserve so much better than these statements with no statement, plans with no plan.

This has been the same rhetoric that has occurred in NZ since 2017 for every major event since and I think a light has been shone on how terribly ineffective the decision makers are when it comes to real world problems. How can you say more than expected and ignore experts and modeling. Forget not closing the border to Delta when we had plenty of opportunity too, while smugly deciding our covid "strategy" works.

If it is due to from above and it is political, it needs to be transparent. Enough of wishy washy buying time, people would feel a lot more at ease if they were just transparent.

Pilot draws massive V for vaccination over Auckland for Super Saturday | Newshub
The happiest thing for me today, was the pilot who drew a big V for vaccination in the skies :-). Didnt watch the vaxxathon, only as it brings back memories of the 80s haha. But Im sure there were positives that happened all around today. The good with the bad, but the bad needs addressing not just accepting.

Lets just keep in mind, we have the young people to go, beyond 90% adults. Luckily I dont think we anything like Israel which is 1/3 under 14yo, which dramatically skewed their vax efficacy stats and were fuel for the dumbies spreading the misinfo.

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#2796300 16-Oct-2021 20:31

TeaLeaf:
Wasnt it 30k of the 125k were 1st vax? Auck needed 30k and got 8k I think, wasnt paying full attention.

"The maximum penalty for breaching the COVID-19 order is six months in prison or a fine not exceeding $4000." Its not the law that is the problem, it is that it is not being enforced, that is the problem. As Arcon correctly pointed out there are zero consequences. Its not the average police persons fault, they are clearly following instruction, and its probably not the commissioners fault, probably being told how to handle it.

Anti-lockdown protest: Police promise 'prosecution action' against organisers
Explain to the people who are doing the right thing why (mostly adults) 1000s are allowed to do break the rule and there are zero consequences! If it is poltical, then that needs to be ousted and whoever has put the hard word on be ousted for doing so.

And its not just protestors. IMO if you going to be walking passed mass groups within 1-2ft, a mask should be mandated, which means essentially masks worn in public.

Explain to the people of Auckland why at 8 cases we stated it was working (which it was, elimination), then few weeks later do a 180, completely ignoring the advice of many experts and modeling, then have the cheek to say Ardern admits case numbers 'beyond what we have expected'. Explain if it was not political, who flapped up with the expert advice and made the decision and who got the modeling horribly wrong. Man up and give the public of Auckland what they deserve, truth and transparency. I don't want to be political, but its hard not to when this pandemic appears to be 100% political.

Likewise, what is happening with the Hospitals, ICU's and ICU staff that we were clearly going to need a year ago. Start doing and saying "something". Not high level traffic lights (which I personally think made more sense to start) and 3 stage plans that have no delineation and of which are worthless now given how "unexpected" Delta was to the decision maker.

What is happening to target the demographics which were identified in the outbreak 6 weeks ago, nothing.

Auckland (and now subsequent smaller regions) have become the petri dish of choice to buy time to do obvious things that needed starting 12 months ago. That is why the people of Auckland, especially the vulnerable, deserve so much better than these statements with no statement, plans with no plan.

This has been the same rhetoric that has occurred in NZ since 2017 for every major event since and I think a light has been shone on how terribly ineffective the decision makers are when it comes to real world problems. How can you say more than expected and ignore experts and modeling. Forget not closing the border to Delta when we had plenty of opportunity too, while smugly deciding our covid "strategy" works.

If it is due to from above and it is political, it needs to be transparent. Enough of wishy washy buying time, people would feel a lot more at ease if they were just transparent.

Pilot draws massive V for vaccination over Auckland for Super Saturday | Newshub
The happiest thing for me today, was the pilot who drew a big V for vaccination in the skies :-). Didnt watch the vaxxathon, only as it brings back memories of the 80s haha. But Im sure there were positives that happened all around today. The good with the bad, but the bad needs addressing not just accepting.

Lets just keep in mind, we have the young people to go, beyond 90% adults. Luckily I dont think we anything like Israel which is 1/3 under 14yo, which dramatically skewed their vax efficacy stats and were fuel for the dumbies spreading the misinfo.

TLDR

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