2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2796782 17-Oct-2021 17:13

Handle9:
More than likely the police have decided a riot would be bad.

Yes, those are my thoughts, but again, we dont have proof of that either. But it would make sense the Govt does not want riots, the Police who have a lot of work as it is most certainly would not, which is fair enough. But to change policy to allow large congregations is the part im trying to get across as being a little, wanting.... And if the instruction is to just allow things to run wild, surely these occurrences are just going to be common place, with zero enforcement of the law....

Perhaps they will make an example out of one of yesterdays and hope that does the job. I guess we will see pretty soon.

Personally I feel its a shame that little old conservative NZ would come to this, but given what we have seen overseas and just across the ditch, especially with no explanation and wishy washy stages that are being ridiculed, it was surely known to occur eventually...

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2796784 17-Oct-2021 17:26

Handle9:

More than likely the police have decided a riot would be bad.

It's a weird one. I'd say at its core it's a 'rule of law' thing that the average derro showing up doesn't really get any fallout from if the police are only ever charging organisers post-event.

It sure as hell doesn't do much for the perspective that there are certain elements of our society who can basically do as they please.

Fred99

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Uber Geek

#2796785 17-Oct-2021 17:31

TeaLeaf:

Handle9:
More than likely the police have decided a riot would be bad.

Yes, those are my thoughts, but again, we dont have proof of that either. But it would make sense the Govt does not want riots, the Police who have a lot of work as it is most certainly would not, which is fair enough. But to change policy to allow large congregations is the part im trying to get across as being a little, wanting....

If the media de-platformed them, they'd mainly vanish from sight.

Handle9

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#2796789 17-Oct-2021 17:41

Fred99:
TeaLeaf:

Yes, those are my thoughts, but again, we dont have proof of that either. But it would make sense the Govt does not want riots, the Police who have a lot of work as it is most certainly would not, which is fair enough. But to change policy to allow large congregations is the part im trying to get across as being a little, wanting....

If the media de-platformed them, they'd mainly vanish from sight.

I doubt it. They are mostly driven by social media.

Deplatforming them from MSM would just feed their cause.

Handle9

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#2796791 17-Oct-2021 17:42

GV27:
Handle9:

More than likely the police have decided a riot would be bad.

It's a weird one. I'd say at its core it's a 'rule of law' thing that the average derro showing up doesn't really get any fallout from if the police are only ever charging organisers post-event.

It sure as hell doesn't do much for the perspective that there are certain elements of our society who can basically do as they please.

Yeah. Wealthy white people are effectively immune from most consequences.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2796797 17-Oct-2021 17:49

Fred99:

If the media de-platformed them, they'd mainly vanish from sight.

Oh I have to agree Fred, the actual organised flouters that is.

Firstly it was just a cultural issue that just needed a good old chin wag to get Change agents on board. Now its going to just increase imo, in fact the media just publicizing the party has exponentially done what you said.

NZ is also very conservative in comparison to Aus, they definitely do not want those occurences, the problem is now they have made get togethers an "allowed" occurence for all, beyond what was an accident by virtue of culture, it will just grow even without the media now. "They did it and nothing happened, lets give it a crack" type thinking.

Oh well, I guess the groups are youngns who are the larger unvaxxd group, aside from costing tax payers, it is them that will pay the ultimate price.

Handle9:

Yeah. Wealthy white people are effectively immune from most consequences.

Including substantially better public health (if there is such a thing in NZ), perhaps by share virtue of where they can afford to live/buy. Its a viscous cycle.

tdgeek

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#2796799 17-Oct-2021 17:53

TeaLeaf:

Oh I have to agree Fred, the actual organised flouters that is.

Firstly it was just a cultural issue that just needed a good old chin wag to get Change agents on board. Now its going to just increase imo, in fact the media just publicizing the party has exponentially done what you said.

NZ is also very conservative in comparison to Aus, they definitely do not want those occurences, the problem is now they have made get togethers an "allowed" occurence for all, beyond what was an accident by virtue of culture, it will just grow even without the media now. "They did it and nothing happened, lets give it a crack" type thinking.

Oh well, I guess the groups are youngns who are the larger unvaxxd group, aside from costing tax payers, it is them that will pay the ultimate price.

As has happened overseas, its often an epidemic of the unvaccinated. My pity is that Maori and Pasifika are lagging. Unsure why, its not new news. It's free. But I'd like that to be covered off.

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TeaLeaf

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Uber Geek

#2796801 17-Oct-2021 17:55

tdgeek:

Unsure why, its not new news. It's free. But I'd like that to be covered off.

Same same, nobody left behind. We know who and where, its time for proactivity. Surely in an extremely multi cultural society we can find ways to bridge the void....

Daynger

435 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2796805 17-Oct-2021 18:00

Dingbatt:

So by your logic every road fatality is directly the responsibility of the Minister of Transport? After all they are the ones who set the rules, and ultimately could ban all vehicles from the road to increase safety. Nothing to do with drivers not obeying the rules or behaving in a risky fashion.

The best of strategies are only good until they butt up against human nature. This is obvious from the continuing spread of the virus around Auckland. If everyone had stuck strictly to the requirements then it likely would have been suppressed and eliminated, but that is not how humans work. They cheat and they lie. And if their life revolves around criminal activity then some extra ‘rules’ mean nothing.

Its a numbers game. 99% of people in Auckland can do their best, but the other 1% is still 15000 people.

No every road death is not directly of the minister of transport, unless they did something like remove all speed limits.

Your simile is bad.

Binchicken thought she knew better and went against the advice of the health advisors, why do you think they refuse to release the official advice they were given at the start of the outbreak in Sydney?

Her decision has cost lives, so yes, she is responsible for that.

Flouters and antivaxxers should also be apportioned some of the blame for sure, but her original decision from the position she was in let the virus loose in the first instance, no virus, no flouting, no deaths.

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2796807 17-Oct-2021 18:08

Handle9:

Yeah. Wealthy white people are effectively immune from most consequences.

I think you meant this to be some sort of zinger, but the angry grouchy boomers were shown to have attended both in numbers and it's effectively who I meant.

Tamaki and the others who organise these kinds of events are one thing, but there needs to be some consequences for anyone who can be identified.

Maybe the police need to start circulating footage of these events more widely so that people can see their neighbours and employees who think it's a good idea to intentionally breach the lockdown rules that keep them from trading or seeing their loved ones.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2796812 17-Oct-2021 18:22

GV27:

Tamaki and the others who organise these kinds of events are one thing, but there needs to be some consequences for anyone who can be identified.

The original article I read said they are already looking at prosecuting the "organisers".

Will that really deter people from having parties, if they also have zero consequences?

I think all of us abiding by the rules, especially those of us who are ill, are very p'd off at it all. Its not a GZ thing. I just dont understand how much longer they will allow it to continue, who ever they is, the deciders of taking action, will have no excuse like Jacinda's "we werent expecting these kinds of numbers" in relation to the Delta outbreak post lvl3.

Some time very soon, somebody is going to have to take ownership or there will be more civil unrest from those abiding than those flouting, is my guess.

tdgeek

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#2796813 17-Oct-2021 18:30

TeaLeaf:

tdgeek:

Unsure why, its not new news. It's free. But I'd like that to be covered off.

Same same, nobody left behind. We know who and where, its time for proactivity. Surely in an extremely multi cultural society we can find ways to bridge the void....

Yeah, I dunno why, Covid isn't a secret.

tdgeek

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#2796814 17-Oct-2021 18:31

TeaLeaf:

The original article I read said they are already looking at prosecuting the "organisers".

Will that really deter people from having parties, if they also have zero consequences?

I think all of us abiding by the rules, especially those of us who are ill, are very p'd off at it all. Its not a GZ thing. I just dont understand how much longer they will allow it to continue, who ever they is, the deciders of taking action, will have no excuse like Jacinda's "we werent expecting these kinds of numbers" in relation to the Delta outbreak post lvl3.

Some time very soon, somebody is going to have to take ownership or there will be more civil unrest from those abiding than those flouting, is my guess.

It would be ideal if he was arrested, and dragged away by the handcuffs, but I dont think our legal system caters for that.

arcon

423 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2796829 17-Oct-2021 19:58

tdgeek:

It would be ideal if he was arrested, and dragged away by the handcuffs, but I dont think our legal system caters for that.

Protestors have been taken into custody this lockdown - he very likely can be taken away in handcuffs. Those examples are in Level 4 but the Civil Defence Emergency Management and Health acts still apply under Level 3.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2796842 17-Oct-2021 21:17

sbiddle:
Has anybody seen any data online that shows any additional details of MIQ cases? I'm really curious over the past 2 months as an example how many MIQ cases were detected beyond the day 0/1 or day 3 tests. This is shown in the daily press releases but doesn't seem to be shown in any other easy to access location.

It's pretty clear now the business case for MIQ is slowly beginning to fade when we now have 363 cases this week of CT this week and 9 in MIQ with every one of those cases being pickup up during day 0/1 or day 3 testing. Looking back in recent weeks with the exception of a few close contacts who have become infectious later in their stay, virtually everybody is testing positive on day 0/1 or day 3. We're not collection vaccination status of arrivals so don't have a way to know what percentage of those who are testing positive are fully vaccinated, but you would have to assume the mast majority of people these days would be.

I tend to agree. I think an end to 14 days MIQ for the masses is approaching one day at a time (it's coming like it or not). You would have to imagine it would be a phased approach backed up by data gathered beforehand and along the way, and the current state of Covid in NZ at the time. We'll see how the business quarantine at home trial works out this side of Christmas.

I would expect the howls of protest will be heard from far and wide. Some people can't understand why we are not already building purpose built MIQ facilities far away from Auckland.

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