Sick leave entitlement - accumulate or allocate after 6 months?

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#2008759 6-May-2018 15:30

I once worked for a very large organisation that gave us x days sick-leave p.a. They found that, if they hadn’t used up their days, staff would take ‘sickies’ to use the days. People would use them because they felt entitled to them.

Then the company moved to an unlimited/unspecified number of sick-days p.a. on a “what’s fair and reasonable” basis - where a doctor’s certificate was required after three consecutive days, or if the company asked for one.

The result of this was that the company’s total number of sick-days per year fell dramatically and the staff were happier. Was a win-win situation.

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Dairyxox

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#2008773 6-May-2018 16:26

eracode: I once worked for a very large organisation that gave us x days sick-leave p.a. They found that, if they hadn’t used up their days, staff would take ‘sickies’ to use the days. People would use them because they felt entitled to them.

Then the company moved to an unlimited/unspecified number of sick-days p.a. on a “what’s fair and reasonable” basis - where a doctor’s certificate was required after three consecutive days, or if the company asked for one.

The result of this was that the company’s total number of sick-days per year fell dramatically and the staff were happier. Was a win-win situation.

Thats interesting. I find that I need about double the 7 day annual entitlement I have, between myself and looking after sick family members.

MikeB4

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#2008809 6-May-2018 17:14

As a manager I was not hocked up on whether staff had sick leave available, if they were genuinely sick I would pay them especially during the cold and flu season. I did not want them to come to work sick. It was better to lose 4 x 1 days off as opposed to 4 x 30 days off.

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kingjj

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#2008871 6-May-2018 18:58

My employer (a large civil service) allocates 5 days sick leave from day one which can be used straight away. You get a total of 10 days sick leave per annum for the first 2 years then 15 days per annum there after. They can be banked. We have a small group of people that (for one reason or another) use their allocation every year while others are the opposite and consider it 'insurance' to have a large total banked (colleague has nearly 600 days banked while I'm at a paltry 85 currently). A colleague had a stroke a few years ago and had the first 5 months of her recovery covered by her banked sick leave.

I've known some employers that gave the allocation at the 6 month mark where as others start accumulating it from day one but obviously it takes a while to get a sufficient quantity built up.

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#2008895 6-May-2018 19:51

eracode: I once worked for a very large organisation that gave us x days sick-leave p.a. They found that, if they hadn’t used up their days, staff would take ‘sickies’ to use the days. People would use them because they felt entitled to them.

Then the company moved to an unlimited/unspecified number of sick-days p.a. on a “what’s fair and reasonable” basis - where a doctor’s certificate was required after three consecutive days, or if the company asked for one.

The result of this was that the company’s total number of sick-days per year fell dramatically and the staff were happier. Was a win-win situation.

They are entitled to it. Apparently it's called "mental health days".

Aredwood

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#2008924 6-May-2018 21:30

If I ever end up employing anyone. I will pay out unused sick leave instead of it just "disappearing". Would be a reward to those employees who don't use much sick leave.

And a lot less disruptive from not as many employees not turning up to work.

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Fred99

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#2008929 6-May-2018 21:46

Aredwood: If I ever end up employing anyone. I will pay out unused sick leave instead of it just "disappearing". Would be a reward to those employees who don't use much sick leave.

And a lot less disruptive from not as many employees not turning up to work.

Then you'll have the problem that the worker will turn up unfit for work with the 'flu as they don't want to forfeit what they see as the eventual "bonus" from not using the sick leave, and you'll end up having to pay them for a week to do nothing as you can't supervise them, while you're at home in bed eating panadol tablet soup to treat the 'flu you caught from them.

timmmay

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#2008930 6-May-2018 21:46

I send people home who come to work sick. I have no authority to do that, but I do it anyway. Just pointing out they'll make others sick is usually enough.

Fred99

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#2008933 6-May-2018 21:58

Batman:

eracode: I once worked for a very large organisation that gave us x days sick-leave p.a. They found that, if they hadn’t used up their days, staff would take ‘sickies’ to use the days. People would use them because they felt entitled to them.

Then the company moved to an unlimited/unspecified number of sick-days p.a. on a “what’s fair and reasonable” basis - where a doctor’s certificate was required after three consecutive days, or if the company asked for one.

The result of this was that the company’s total number of sick-days per year fell dramatically and the staff were happier. Was a win-win situation.

They are entitled to it. Apparently it's called "mental health days".

Eracode made some good comments, you respond with irrelevant links.

Yes some people do refer to a "sickie" as a "mental health day". IMO that's dumb - for taking a "sickie" in the first place, then implying that mental health issues are just an easy good excuse to have a paid day off work.

For sure you're entitled to it, and the first link you posted that's clearly defined as only "entitling" someone to what they would as sick leave for any other reason, physical illness etc.

scuwp

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#2008934 6-May-2018 22:04

Aredwood: If I ever end up employing anyone. I will pay out unused sick leave instead of it just "disappearing". Would be a reward to those employees who don't use much sick leave.

And a lot less disruptive from not as many employees not turning up to work.

An honorable idea but perhaps more thought needed. I would rather ensure that staff take the time off they need to recover, rather than coming to work when they really shouldn't be and infecting the rest of the workforce. Incentivising staff to work when sick by promising to pay them out their sick leave is very likely to be counterproductive in the long run. There is more to job satisfaction, productivity, and retention that pay. Work life balance and being supported to be healthy and happy are some of those.

Suggest have a look at Maslow's Hierarchy for a start. There's more to managing staff that paying them.

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#2008943 6-May-2018 22:56

MikeB4:

As a manager I was not hocked up on whether staff had sick leave available, if they were genuinely sick I would pay them especially during the cold and flu season. I did not want them to come to work sick. It was better to lose 4 x 1 days off as opposed to 4 x 30 days off.

I currently work or have worked for places that, in theory, mostly offered the statutory minimum or 10 days a year at the most but have never allowed (or forced) people to take annual leave/unpaid leave for genuine sickness or sickness of dependents. All it ever took was a quick conversation with HR and people got special leave.

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timmmay

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#2008973 7-May-2018 06:40

Where I work there's thousands of staff, I doubt anyone gets extra leave unless they have a generous immediate manager.

timmmay

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#2009053 7-May-2018 10:04

The answer from HR is sick leave is updated during each pay run, so it takes a couple of weeks after the 6 month period to get shown in the leave system. I guess if anyone needs leave in that period it will have to be done manually. It sounds like the full allocate is made at that time.

MikeAqua

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#2009068 7-May-2018 10:31

My employer lets me accumulate sick leave without limit.

At the end of last year I had the best part of six weeks off for surgery. Full pay, no issues. Great to have such a supportive employer. Also, this actually saved the government from having to pay me compensation for lost earnings.

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#2009646 7-May-2018 22:41

Aredwood: If I ever end up employing anyone. I will pay out unused sick leave instead of it just "disappearing". Would be a reward to those employees who don't use much sick leave.

And a lot less disruptive from not as many employees not turning up to work.

Yeah - you need to think that through more carefully. If someone is sick and can’t work ... versus paying someone 2x daily rate. Think about it....

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