I cannot see any mental images, I have aphantasia

Forums › Health and fitness › I cannot see any mental images, I have aphantasia

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#2534912 5-Aug-2020 08:42

lurker: True, I'm curious what blind people (as you say blind from birth) 'see' in their mind. Maybe how they'd describe it can't be translated into what we see with our eyes. Someone I know, her husband is blind, I'll try and ask :)

Eva888: True yes! As my wife pointed out too, we both enjoy photography but she finds I'm always happier with how my photos came out, compared to how happy or not she is with hers. Maybe it's because she has a mental image of how her photo will look, and when it doesn't match it can be quite disapointing, whereas for me I don't have such specific expectations of how it'll look. Thanks for the professor's email there, I'd be happy to be involved, I'll email him.

I posted on my Facebook too, and surprisingly one person I used to work with (she's now a landscape designer) is the same, someone's husband (in the army, where I imagine this is an advantage!) is the same, and someone else I used to work with, their Mum is the same. Interesting.

I'd be curious to know, if you surveyed people who knew they couldn't visualise from childhood, what jobs they ended up doing. I'd hope they wouldn't shy away from creative jobs. Personally I'm a computer programmer / run a virtual reality rental company / occasional wedding photographer.

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pom532

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#2534920 5-Aug-2020 09:03

Things like this are amazing that until someone mentions it, you never think that other people aren't the same.

With the apple, I think I'm about a 3 or a 4. I know sometimes I can see images very clearly at 1, but most of the time I would struggle to get an outline of a particular object.

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#2534926 5-Aug-2020 09:13

Weirdly enough I cannot picture an apple in isolation. I can only imagine it in the context of where I may have seen one, such as an orchard, on an inspection line, in the supermarket surrounded by others, in a fruit bowl, in my hand in the kitchen, in a picture. The apple is a Granny Smith unless I think of other varieties.

I wish I could sketch well so that I can capture an image of what I see rather than take a photo of what is there.

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2534946 5-Aug-2020 09:40

LostBoyNZ:

I made a surprising discovery about myself yesterday. I'm 38 and learned I have something called Aphantasia, which is where I cannot form images in my mind. So where someone might imagine a beach and see it in their mind, or remember someone / an experience and be able to picture that in their mind, I can't. I don't 'see' anything in my mind.

I didn't realise until a few years ago that other people could form images in their mind. I just see words, and like yourself, have no interest in works of fiction. I put it down to the fact that I mostly read to gain knowledge, rather than enjoyment, so I never developed that 'skill'. The sort of things I read (computing or scientific texts, legislation/regulations) rely on interpretation of text rather than visuals.

I actually see this inability as an advantage. My judgement is not clouded by fanciful ideas, I see only the facts (or pseudo-facts in modern times) presented to me. Might also explain why I can talk about anything at the dinner table, while others are put off their food by the mere thought of some things.

On the other hand, my very literal interpretation of things also makes me seem like a bit of an arse at times. Can't win 'em all.

LostBoyNZ: Whereas for me if I'm thinking of a palm tree, I can think ok it has leaves at the top and it has coconuts which are round, brown maybe with some holes in them... etc... almost like I'm breaking it down into rules about what makes a palm tree a palm tree, if that makes any sense.

Makes complete sense.

sittingduckz

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#2534948 5-Aug-2020 09:41

I can't imagine what this would be like... oh wait... bugger!

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

eracode

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#2534978 5-Aug-2020 10:31

@LostBoyNZ A lot of the mental imagery that I use is for example when I’m working on a DIY project, or repairing stuff etc - where there are multiple mini problem-solving issues and various ways of doing things. Often I think about the alternatives when I’m lying in bed during the night - when I don’t actually have the project physically in front of me. I picture in my mind’s eye how to approach things and the best way often pops up.

I can’t imagine not being able to do that - how does this work for you?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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LostBoyNZ

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#2534999 5-Aug-2020 10:59

Wow, so interesting to see the replies, it really does show everyone is unqiue.

Someone else at my work, when she pictures an orange for example, she can smell the orange. I hope that doesn't mean when she pictures something gross she has to smell that too haha.

SirHumphreyAppleby: Good point about it being an advantage in that case. I agree, I think it's not that being able to visualise things in high detail, low detail or not at all are 'worse' than others, they each have their own benefits and disadvantages.

eracode: Interesting question yeah! I'm quite into DIY things, like I've made an entire desktop PC case in the shape of Chii from an anime / manga called Chobits (basically a 'human' sculpture, in this case out of mostly polystyrene), a racing cockpit, a woodern castle for our guniea pigs, and I often do website design and things like that. in the case of my Chii PC case, thinking back, I did find it hard to carve it into the right shape. I'd printed a lot of pictures that I had on hand with me, and there was a fair bit of trial and error involved. I think that would have been easier if I had a mental image of her while carving her.

For the racing cockpit and the castle, I designed them first in Photoshop (the wrong tool for the job I know, but yeah). I had alternatives in layers I could flick between until I made a choice and was able to try solutions to problems that came up by changing the design.

I suspect it means it takes longer for me, but potentially the same results in the end.

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Jaxson

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#2535003 5-Aug-2020 11:08

I always thought I did, until I tried that apple example.

Do people actually like see an image (close eyes and think of a banana or a person etc) as in see a visual creation in their mind/as if it was in front of their eyes?

I always thought I did until I've actually challenged myself a bit. I'm thinking more feelings, like holding the apple and biting into it, or the feeling and sound of a tropical beach based on memories. But I don't actually build a image in my mind of it.

mrdrifter

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#2535005 5-Aug-2020 11:09

LostBoyNZ:

GSManiac: Wow, I wish I'd seen that already. But absolutely I'm number 5. For anyone who doesn't click the link, it's "This is still blowing my mind lol Close your eyes and imagine an apple. What do you see?"

A few years ago now when learning about memory techniques and visualisation, apparently most people visualise things somewhere on the spectrum above i.e. somewhere between a 2d image through to nothing at all and a number of people sit somewhere in the middle with greyscale/black and white images being quite common, it's just that people never really think about it until they are asked specifically. There is actually steps to the left on the scale as well with a small percentage of people being able to visualise things in 3 dimensions and some that can split the 3d dimensional images and view from multiple angles at once.

olivernz

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#2535021 5-Aug-2020 11:46

So I am 1 or as @mrdrifter says to the left of that. I can picture pretty much anything in 3D full colour and rotate it as I please in my mind seeing it clearly. I love those aptitude tests, where you have shapes in 2D and 3D and need to complete one or tick the missing one. Absolute doddle. So when I want to drive somewhere where I am unsure I actually see the 3D map with buildings and features in my mind and then navigate through that to find my way. But on the down side someone saying to me "Go down main street and turn left into banks road" absolutely pulls a blank. I can't remember street names etc. Or rather I don't see the sense as it doesn't help me navigate. My wife navigates by text/names so we're fiercely incompatible in that sense. So I ask her for example, what shop is there or a cafe or other feature. Then I can plot the path.

So @LostBoyNZ how do you navigate? Or if you see say a car and want to imagine what the other side looks like, can you do that or do you actually need to see it?

mrdrifter

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#2535051 5-Aug-2020 12:43

olivernz:

So I am 1 or as @mrdrifter says to the left of that. I can picture pretty much anything in 3D full colour and rotate it as I please in my mind seeing it clearly. I love those aptitude tests, where you have shapes in 2D and 3D and need to complete one or tick the missing one. Absolute doddle. So when I want to drive somewhere where I am unsure I actually see the 3D map with buildings and features in my mind and then navigate through that to find my way. But on the down side someone saying to me "Go down main street and turn left into banks road" absolutely pulls a blank. I can't remember street names etc. Or rather I don't see the sense as it doesn't help me navigate. My wife navigates by text/names so we're fiercely incompatible in that sense. So I ask her for example, what shop is there or a cafe or other feature. Then I can plot the path.

That's pretty much what I do, I can pull things apart in three dimensions, full exploded diagram type views with rotation etc.. fold sides out and separate views out like picture in picture or split screen in my mind. The downside is I'm incredibly bad at pretty much anything artistic and I find it quite frustrating as things never look as good as I imagined before starting.

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#2535093 5-Aug-2020 12:54

When I close my eyes and try all I see is the inside of my eyelids. Bummer.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#2535100 5-Aug-2020 12:56

Also. Just to change the subject. Apparently I don't see in 3D. I am weird (oops, meant 'special')...

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LostBoyNZ

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#2535112 5-Aug-2020 13:08

Wow! I'm amazed at how different people even in the small group of geekzone members are.

@olivernz I navigate by landmarks where possible, like for example I'll remember to turn left at a Caltex or something like that. But without a GPS I must admit I get lost quickly! I finally upgraded my phone this year after like 8 years or something and having a working GPS on it is the best haha.

If I want to see on the other side of a car? I can't imagine it no, I'd have to go see. I can make assumptions and think of ideas like if I can see some wall on either side of the car I can think that the wall continues behind the car, but I can't picture it in my mind.

@mrdrifter That's amazing too, but yeah I can imagine it's quite frustrating to never be able to match up to the image in your head. And the better you are at mental images, maybe the harder it is to make them match.

I'm pretty bad at drawing and such except if I have a picture or the object right there, then I'm not as bad because I keep comparing what I've drawn to the picture and making adjustments as I go.

@rb99 Wow, but if you close each eye, you still see a 2D image from each eye? It'd be interesting too if you saw things in your mind in 3D but physically with your eyes only in 2D, but it might be one of the cases where it's better you don't.

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olivernz

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#2535117 5-Aug-2020 13:17

Oh and if I can't visualise I can't remember. So the absolute worst thing you can do to me is give me a poem or song to learn. When I repeat it the content is there but the words aren't necessarily the same. So a goose might become a duck and the such. Oh and I am convinced that -at least in my youth- I had a mild form of dyslexia (only realised about 2y ago when I read through a list of symptoms) so that may explain why my brain went the graphic route. I also seem to have issues with remembering far into the past. I don't have much detail recollection. What triggers memories best is taste and smell (or physical presence in same space). Not sure what's that about but I always awe at my mother that can recollect the "bad" things I did 40 odd years ago down to the shade of the T-shirt i was wearing (or is that a mother thing?)

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