Covid Vaccines facts fictions and unknowns

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#2771796 3-Sep-2021 21:28

I will freely admit that I don't understand what most of the article is saying, but the conclusion is saying that it is better to be vaccinated than not vaccinated.

maslink

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#2771908 4-Sep-2021 08:54

larknz: I will freely admit that I don't understand what most of the article is saying, but the conclusion is saying that it is better to be vaccinated than not vaccinated.

TLDR: Yes, that’s correct.

Key takeouts that I took from the article:

To understand the actual effect of vaccination on serious illness, you also need to have additional information about confounding factors - in this case the likelihood of Covid infection leading to severe illness requiring hospitalisation ( for which age is a reasonable proxy), and percentage of vaccinated people in each group.
For the data set used, each age group showed ~90% reduction in serious illness with vaccination when considered separately, but only a 60% reduction if considered as a whole.

TeaLeaf

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#2772016 4-Sep-2021 12:39

freitasm: @Daynger I specifically mentioned disinformation.

Just to clarify, Batman created the thread for fact or fiction on the vaccine, so I presume the purpose is also to fact check information?

I have a link to a YT vid (was livestream) by a microbiologist on how spke proteins work because that seems to be a topic of disinformation out there, of which I know people not being vaccinated because they did their own "searches" and have swallowed the disinformation on this topic to feed their fear narrative.

So is it ok to post such links here to have them fact checked?

There is the RNA/mRNA wiki, CDC mRNA site etc also. Can I post those, to help those swayed by clickbait to the anti vax "side"?

Also given how many vaccines (including those addressing other novel viruses) a lot of people did not question prior to the information age, this is the first major virus that the information age has contributed too (for or against). So I have articles on discussions around law changes on this topic. Again, do not want to post until I know it is ok to ask if these are fact or fiction.

Excited, have my first jab tomorrow :-)

MikeB4

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#2772037 4-Sep-2021 13:30

The fear of vaccines is understandable but if that fear is uninformed then it is irrational. Over the years the treatment for my condition(s) has involved taking drugs that have scary side effects such as drug induced Lupus, Sepsis, Lymphoma and death. I have learnt over those years not to consult Dr Google about these. I consult my medical specialists with frank and open discussion. The most recent which this week we have made the decision to cease has been linked to deaths but after discussion and a lot of soul searching I made the decision to try it based on the life style improvements that it offered and trading length of life for quality of life. Unfortunately this week I was advised that the treatment had triggered Systemic Lupus Erythematosus. Longevity versus quality is an easy decision.

The decision to get vaccinated or not is a personal decision but should be an informed decision based on advice by professionals. It must also take into account that deciding not to get vaccinated includes people other than self and can have consequences for family, friends and community. Unfortunately social media and mainstream media has brought to the surface untold numbers of uneducated "experts" that will cost lives.

I am fully vaccinated.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

TeaLeaf

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#2772045 4-Sep-2021 13:55

MikeB4: \the treatment for my condition(s) has involved taking drugs that have scary side effects such as drug induced Lupus, Sepsis, Lymphoma and death. I have learnt over those years not to consult Dr Google about these.

The decision to get vaccinated or not is a personal decision but should be an informed decision based on advice by professionals. It must also take into account that deciding not to get vaccinated includes people other than self and can have consequences for family, friends and community. .

On point mate and ditto re facing it with health issues.

Im hoping people will eventually get the facts on vaccines rather than "Dr Google" the vast majority will sway back to science and logic not fear narrative induced paralysis. Because as you point out, it may be a right, but it needs to be balanced with a moral duty.

I will post the links I have once given the all clear to do so. Some are authoritive, some I want fact checked even though they are more vaccination related explanations from biologists.

Perhaps it would be good if we could have fact checked authoritative sources posted on the open to the thread, ie cdc, wiki etc?

Bung

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#2772047 4-Sep-2021 14:09

Who here is qualified to do the fact checking? The various NZ bodies, Health, EPA etc have published information. Where is the value in seeking more? When it comes down to it the choice in NZ at the moment only involves the Pfizer vaccine.

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Batman

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#2772050 4-Sep-2021 14:20

TeaLeaf: I have a link to a YT vid (was livestream) by a microbiologist on how spke proteins work because that seems to be a topic of disinformation out there, of which I know people not being vaccinated because they did their own "searches" and have swallowed the disinformation on this topic to feed their fear narrative. So is it ok to post such links here to have them fact checked? There is the RNA/mRNA wiki, CDC mRNA site etc also. Can I post those, to help those swayed by clickbait to the anti vax "side"? Also given how many vaccines (including those addressing other novel viruses) a lot of people did not question prior to the information age, this is the first major virus that the information age has contributed too (for or against). So I have articles on discussions around law changes on this topic. Again, do not want to post until I know it is ok to ask if these are fact or fiction. Excited, have my first jab tomorrow :-)

Do you have a specific question to ask? If so ask away.

MikeB4

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#2772051 4-Sep-2021 14:23

TeaLeaf:
Bung: Who here is qualified to do the fact checking? The various NZ bodies, Health, EPA etc have published information. Where is the value in seeking more? When it comes down to it the choice in NZ at the moment only involves the Pfizer vaccine.
Fair point. Given how wiki works and the authoritative sources are a search away, the real issue is probably more around how we get people to said information, both nationally and internationally, to avoid disinformation sites on the vaccine.

Refer them to the folks that have the years of training and education their medical professionals. Oh and slap them if they start to Goggle it.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

surfisup1000

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#2772054 4-Sep-2021 14:39

MikeB4:

Refer them to the folks that have the years of training and education their medical professionals.

Peter McCullough is a US medical professional with years of training and education .

But, you will get banned if you repeat the misinformation this guy is saying.

MikeB4

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#2772060 4-Sep-2021 14:53

surfisup1000:

Peter McCullough is a US medical professional with years of training and education .

But, you will get banned if you repeat the misinformation this guy is saying.

Good point, I should have qualified it with "and still remembers their training and Education"

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

TeaLeaf

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#2772070 4-Sep-2021 15:10

Batman:

Do you have a specific question to ask? If so ask away.

No. But thank you though. If I have any queries on disinformation friends or family are following that I cannot get answered, I will post them. I just feel obligated to try and get said disinformation out of their heads, as the internet tells them differently.

I think I just misread the point of thread is all. I will stop posting.

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surfisup1000

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#2772071 4-Sep-2021 15:13

MikeB4:

surfisup1000:

Peter McCullough is a US medical professional with years of training and education .

But, you will get banned if you repeat the misinformation this guy is saying.

Good point, I should have qualified it with "and still remembers their training and Education"

I don't get why these people go rogue ... maybe they know they are talking rubbish but enjoy the attention ?

Michael Yeadon is another guy, ex-pfizer scientist.... gone rogue... his ex-colleagues are baffled by his new ideas about vaccines.

Every nut job and fantasist latch onto these 'once' reputable people.

freitasm

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#2772073 4-Sep-2021 15:15

surfisup1000:

I don't get why these people go rogue ... maybe they know they are talking rubbish but enjoy the attention ?

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kotuku4

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#2772104 4-Sep-2021 15:33

I am happy to have my second dose this week.
And that we have good quality vaccine. And that we can vaccinate from 12 years.
My wife's family in Indonesia had poor quality Chinese sinovax vaccine that was only about 51% effective against early varriants and around 30% against delta. And some batches of vaccine rejected when tested as utter garbage.

clinty

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#2772463 5-Sep-2021 10:42

A very good ( but long) article from Charlie Mitchell (Science reporter) in Stuff

He spent three weeks in the NZ anti vaxx online community

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300397872/covid19-three-weeks-inside-a-rabbit-hole-of-dangerous-misinformation

He covers alot of ground and provides reasons behined why anti vaxx think what they do. Also provides information and links to debunk some of the more prevalent theories

Clint

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