2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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2405 posts

Uber Geek

#2824985 6-Dec-2021 12:14

Infants younger than 6 months old infected by SARS-CoV-2 show the highest respiratory viral loads
https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiab577/6438522

""
We analyzed the viral loads of 45,318 SARS-CoV-2-positive nasopharyngeal swab samples obtained in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Infants younger than 6 months old presented higher viral loads than any other age group.
""

Unless mother has been vaccinated, in which case babies get protection from mother and also milk.
Secretory IgA and T cells targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein are transferred to the breastmilk upon mRNA vaccination: Cell Reports Medicine
Babies are very vulnerable before immune system has developed further.

If one needed more reasons apart from proven danger to mother when their system is under very high stress to get vaccinated.
Another good reasons to have everyone attending the mother and baby vaccinated, such as midwives, nurses, family.

I suppose another consideration is that they are shedding lots, pass onto granny and all the relatives too.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2824987 6-Dec-2021 12:14

Scott3:

'Worrying': Omicron doctor reveals variant's terrible toll on kids, teen's death

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-children-hospitalised-with-moderate-to-severe-symptoms/QCNS4VJU3H2WEN3UOJU5PEZXYM/

Obviously still limited info around this, but it seems that initial indications of Omicron being mild, may be false (or at least it may be serious enough to overload hospitals).

Positive news is that anecdotally, "all" the 12 - 18 year old children hostilities were not vaccinated despite being eligable. Suggests that the vaccine may be effective against the hospitalization from the omicron strain.

hmmm. We really need to know the variant. The region is awash with Delta too hey.

There were two counter balancing variables in this rise in kids in hospital, in Gauteng. One was that Pediatricians were routinely admitting more kids, because of the new variant and the unknown risks that go with that.

However a rise in the more severe symptom profile would obviously counter that.

The other reason for the rise, was that (understandably) treating teams started screening all the kids already in hospital for other things non Covid, so you get this surge in cases inflated in part by A symptomatic kids.

I am reminded of the time where children were less impacted by the Wild strain, and there were all these magical theories as to why kids don't get or pass on Covid.

There was a flavor of that with Omicron. We never seem to learn.

The scary part of course, is that we are now entering the time where we see the effects of Omicron in terms of severity of illness and deaths, we are rappidly approaching that tell all stage.

But this is a country with unique demographic, epidemiological factors, so we are in for a bit of a roller coaster probably up until years end when things will start to have clarity.

Just keep swimming...

Oblivian

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#2824996 6-Dec-2021 12:31

Batman:

vaccine mandate https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127195094/covid19-uturn-on-vaccine-mandate-allows-takeaway-staff-to-be-unvaccinated

Or rather, reversal of.

It goes back to what I was suggesting about findings at KFC/BK. Shutting dine in means despite lower walk in numbers and higher pressure/frustration on drive through. The staffing needed to check passes drops (too hard), needing to get rid of their own unjabbed staff was avoided. And they can get away with being called a takeaway service rather than a restaurant.

That's just helped them along with it.

Batman

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#2824999 6-Dec-2021 12:36

ezbee:

Infants younger than 6 months old infected by SARS-CoV-2 show the highest respiratory viral loads
https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiab577/6438522

""
We analyzed the viral loads of 45,318 SARS-CoV-2-positive nasopharyngeal swab samples obtained in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Infants younger than 6 months old presented higher viral loads than any other age group.
""

Unless mother has been vaccinated, in which case babies get protection from mother and also milk.
Secretory IgA and T cells targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein are transferred to the breastmilk upon mRNA vaccination: Cell Reports Medicine
Babies are very vulnerable before immune system has developed further.

If one needed more reasons apart from proven danger to mother when their system is under very high stress to get vaccinated.
Another good reasons to have everyone attending the mother and baby vaccinated, such as midwives, nurses, family.

I suppose another consideration is that they are shedding lots, pass onto granny and all the relatives too.

i guess there is a vaccine mandate for childcare workers? (sorry i am out of touch!)

EDIT

actually even more out of touch - under 6 mths don't go to childcare lol.

DS248

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#2825002 6-Dec-2021 12:42

Sup:

Please take it seriously. Politics is not allowed in this thread. There's a specific thread in the Politics sub-forum here: The politicisation of NZ's covid response (geekzone.co.nz)

Posting politics will lead to account being locked out of this topic.

Thanks for the warning, again apologies for creating extra work. Thanks for the link too. I think I will stay out of there for the same reason I should not have posted in here the same theme, these arguments are very circular and they tend to overwhelm the focus on the pandemic.

^this 👍

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2825005 6-Dec-2021 12:46

Scott3:

I understand that the last segment in the youtube video was first posted on December 1.

Dec 3 update on her facebook page:

"Day 17 in Covid today
Day 15 news was my oxygen levels sat at 80% my lungs deflated I was struggling to get them up
Plan of attack is to sleep on my stomach for at least 2 hours a day this opens up my lungs from the back FUNFACT most of your back is where your 🫁 majority sits the least is in from by the ribcage..
Doing this bought my oxygen levels down to 50% huge improvement its still a slow process Docs say but its progress
@37 years of age 2 options
DO OR DIE
Well diing isnt an option now is it 🙄
FF to this morning I just had my morning asthma pump and usually its hard for me to do a deep inhale without it being sore but it wasnt so sore this morning the pain is like a knife piercing my throat when i deeply inhale.. usually today was about out of 10 a 7 so much easier..
I am trialing this covid meds for the docs atm which mayaswell guinea pig me 🤷🏽‍♀️
I have had so much time to think in here its not funny lol
I have been reflecting on all the beautiful people I have growin to love and known all my life that when a tragedy hit I had nothing but love surrounding myself and whanau there was never any room for animosity to enter this beautiful bubble I have surrounded my whanau and I with
THANK YOU FOR ALL THE THOUGHTS THE PRAYERS THE CONSTANT LOVE MESSAGES PHOTOS THOUGHTS
I AM HUMBLED AND WILL NEVER FORGET ANY OF YOU EVER MY ARMS AND DOORS ALWAYS WILL AND ARE OPEN
MORENA WHANAU ITS A GREAT DAY"

Absolute credit to her, for sharing all this stuff this publicly. I don't think I would be brave enough to do so. I wish her the best.

Scott3:

Hamilton mother Karina Haira, has (pretty bravely I think) disclosed her identity provided what I think is the most detailed & gripping personal account of being sick with covid-19 delta strain in NZ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkFOSvvvDuo

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/12/new-zealand-mother-claimed-her-covid-wasn-t-as-bad-as-the-flu-now-she-can-t-breathe-without-oxygen.html

Absolutely. Likewise, I initially watched the youtube video without knowing what it contained. Likewise assumed the first segment was as bad as it was going to get - but how wrong was I.

Pretty hard (but griping) to watch what she was going through. Her removing the high flow nasal thing was quite telling.

Thanks for the update. I feel a connection to Karina after watching her brave videos. Pretty much the most powerful way to engage people in the reality of this. Show a normal woman going through the Covid assault first hand, articulating the experience of fighting for your life in every day terms that we all understand.

She has a lot to fight for.

She mentioned some improvements, so that is good, I think she may have gotten the order of her O2 Sats wrong, no worries, you can assume her blood oxygen level has risen.

She also mentioned a medication being introduced which helps a lot. I would like to know what that is, likely it is a steroid, since this therapy is used later in treatment when the immune response is a threat of a hypersensitive reaction causing lethal inflammation/cytokine storms.

She has a lot to live for, more than many, being a young mum.

There is a long hard road ahead. And the risk remains very high for people in her condition for at least a year following recovery.

Just keep swimming...

Scott3

3970 posts

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#2825006 6-Dec-2021 12:46

Batman:

vaccine mandate https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127195094/covid19-uturn-on-vaccine-mandate-allows-takeaway-staff-to-be-unvaccinated

Argh. The flip flopping is pretty infuriating. Policy changed, and the change reversed, all in roughly three weeks.

In terms of vaccination numbers, it is probiably not a huge deal. Those who were going to get vaccinated and were working in such roles probiably have been already. Just misses the group that were going to take their 4 week notice period as a paid holiday, and get vaccinated on the last day of it.

Wider impact is a bit chilling. Anti-vax groups will portray this as a win, and as evidence that their protesting is getting results. There is a risk that they will be significantly emboldened to step up everything from large protests, to yelling at workers who are checking vaccine passes.

Also causes greater inconstancy issues. So it if fine for the cook at a takeaway only burger joint to be vaccinated, but not one that runs both take away and dine in (noting that the cook is a back of house roll with zero customer interaction in both cases).

Anybody know if covid-19 can be spread via ingestion?

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tdgeek

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#2825009 6-Dec-2021 12:53

Oblivian:

Or rather, reversal of.

It goes back to what I was suggesting about findings at KFC/BK. Shutting dine in means despite lower walk in numbers and higher pressure/frustration on drive through. The staffing needed to check passes drops (too hard), needing to get rid of their own unjabbed staff was avoided. And they can get away with being called a takeaway service rather than a restaurant.

That's just helped them along with it.

My take is that the their is a need to balance health with business and "freedom" and that compliance would continue to go south as well, so better to ease back on health and help businesses/public as they are teetering. Being served by unjabbed staff is ridiculous. How can anyone who wants to play as safe as they can, now go there, without knowing the in premises safety that they are getting?

Batman

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#2825010 6-Dec-2021 12:57

Scott3:

Argh. The flip flopping is pretty infuriating. Policy changed, and the change reversed, all in roughly three weeks.

In terms of vaccination numbers, it is probiably not a huge deal. Those who were going to get vaccinated and were working in such roles probiably have been already. Just misses the group that were going to take their 4 week notice period as a paid holiday, and get vaccinated on the last day of it.

Wider impact is a bit chilling. Anti-vax groups will portray this as a win, and as evidence that their protesting is getting results. There is a risk that they will be significantly emboldened to step up everything from large protests, to yelling at workers who are checking vaccine passes.

Also causes greater inconstancy issues. So it if fine for the cook at a takeaway only burger joint to be vaccinated, but not one that runs both take away and dine in (noting that the cook is a back of house roll with zero customer interaction in both cases).

Anybody know if covid-19 can be spread via ingestion?

wait till we have to recall medical staff if we are short. just relax it'll be ok.

mandate was to get the last convertible people to get the vaccine.

once they all get them the rest will not.

then you will see some changes.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2825015 6-Dec-2021 13:06

Scott3:

Batman:

vaccine mandate https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127195094/covid19-uturn-on-vaccine-mandate-allows-takeaway-staff-to-be-unvaccinated

Anybody know if covid-19 can be spread via ingestion?

Probably best answered with a qualified low risk....because these things are always subject to change. But if we consider what we know from personal experience of Delta, then the risk is very low indeed. We have seen now how locations of interest have become narrowed to only places where close interaction etc is happening.

Otherwise we would have had Supermarket cases by now. And a lot of them.

Fomite or surface transmission is hard to prove in an ecosystem where there is a lot of Covid hovering around in the air.

However all that said, there is a thing in these pandemics, which can get a little annoying, where experts say truthfully 'we have no evidence of this' when sometimes what they are really saying "Is nobody has checked".

You can see that with the evolution of the mask debate and the end outcome where "There is no evidence that they help" to "There is no evidence that they protect you, however they decrease transmission" ......to "Everyone one should wear one lots because they do help a lot in general and we know not wearing one has a LOT of evidence behind it being a risk". All statements were true at the time.

It is possible that New Zealand saw fomite transmission earlyish in this pandemic.

Consider the cases where Covid appeared out of thin air. The most compelling case is the Man who worked at the Americol foodstore freezing company. This is an import business. This man gets Covid from nowhere.

Later swabs of the work site show "No evidence" however the chain of events is compelling.

And then there was the case of the infected lift button, the wheely bin, the woman who worked at the laundry....for a time, those 'out of nowhere cases' were suggestive of fomite transmission.

I guess we will have to wait to see what Omicron does....is it going to lurk on a Weet bix packet waiting to pounce with apparent very limited homicidal tendencies?

"We have no evidence to suggest that".

Just keep swimming...

KrazyKid

1238 posts

Uber Geek

#2825018 6-Dec-2021 13:09

I think you will find a steady stream of larger businesses bring in Vaccine mandates for staff as they work though the health and safety, consult, than impose a deadline.

Would not surprise me to see the extending of mandates into Feb next year.

I know several multinationals that are working through this now and larger retail chains/workplaces will or are follow suiting.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2825022 6-Dec-2021 13:18

KrazyKid:

I think you will find a steady stream of larger businesses bring in Vaccine mandates for staff as they work though the health and safety, consult, than impose a deadline.

Would not surprise me to see the extending of mandates into Feb next year.

I know several multinationals that are working through this now and larger retail chains/workplaces will or are follow suiting.

Agreed. Also we are seeing with mandates world wide, that the trend is towards a toughening stance from Govts by necessity rather than more tolerance.

This is not going to be our last Rodeo.

Just keep swimming...

wellygary

8328 posts

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#2825024 6-Dec-2021 13:20

KrazyKid:

I know several multinationals that are working through this now and larger retail chains/workplaces will or are follow suiting.

I saw PB Tech jumped in this morning as "opt-in" vax pass retailer.... probably the first nation wide "chain" store to do so,

But yeah as you say I'm expecting the bigger national chains to potentially go that way also... and it may cascade down from there...

Batman

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#2825044 6-Dec-2021 14:02

KrazyKid:

I think you will find a steady stream of larger businesses bring in Vaccine mandates for staff as they work though the health and safety, consult, than impose a deadline.

Would not surprise me to see the extending of mandates into Feb next year.

I know several multinationals that are working through this now and larger retail chains/workplaces will or are follow suiting.

following suit?

alasta

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#2825046 6-Dec-2021 14:03

I saw a Rebel Sport ad on Facebook just before, stating that customers must wear masks and social distance but are not required to present a vaccine pass.

So clearly the Briscoes Group doesn't have any immediate plans to follow PB Tech, and my gut feeling is that The Warehouse Group won't either.

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