2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2825178 6-Dec-2021 19:29

quickymart:

If she gets the vaccine after she recovers. she'll be protected still, right? Or is the protection best/strongest for people who have never had coronavirus?

Google hybrid immunity.

Sup

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#2825180 6-Dec-2021 19:32

DS248:

Sup:

Mega announcement on that pre order of 60,000 courses of Paxlovid.

Used early it really is a game changer and will massively drop hospitalizations provided we are proactive in terms of our personal responsibility to get tested. Most of the benefit will be to other household contacts, the index case in a household would have a very narrow window to get tested (before day five).

Still...this is a stunning get by Pharmac. Well done all concerned.

Yes, great news, especially with possible DNA mutation concerns in relation to molnupiravir, which Pharmac has already ordered (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03074-5).

At least at headline level. Paxlovid appears to be significantly more effective at reducing hospitalisations.

One unknown though is effectiveness in the case of vaccinated people (no data yet), so presumably initially the new antivirals will only be used on unvaccinated people?

Good question in regards to who gets this antiviral. Clinical indications would start with someone who is unvaccinated, but not necessarily end there hey.

Given the size of the order, and our seemingly good relationship with Pfizer (our paediatric vaccines sound imminent, our booster supply has been stable and so forth) it may be that we take a wide prophylactic stamp it out approach to the use of paxlovid. This size of order is not one per capita that requires arbitrary rationing over clinical indications for use.

However, the clinical picture is limited by the trial data, this is in the hands of Medsafe, and they would need a submission from Pfizer, of trial data in the vaccinated, to follow normal due process in approving its use in vaccinated people.

There is already a debate about the application to the FDA for emergency use authorization which is specific to the unvaccinated only,

Pfizer anticipate that the FDA final approval may differ from the parameters of the trial data submitted, based on submissions of data from trials in the vaccinated.

Pfizer are trying to prepare trial data before the end of this year from groups who include the vaccinated.

In the US Bioethics experts anticipate that no healthcare provider will agree to comply with an approval which rewards only those who did not follow the health advice.

Furthermore, this is not best practice in pandemic management, you do not ignore break through infections when you are trying to suppress and contain disease.

So saying...bottom line...New Zealand....i.e. medsafe will probably wait for the vaccine break through data first. This is the advantage of having an independent body, we make our own decisions, based off the decisions of others, but never because of the decisions of others.

Indeed it would be unethical to let a sick 12 year old who is vaccinated go untreated while some antivaxxer in their 80s receives the antiviral, this is not medicine. This is not healthcare. And it is not best practice.

I expect to receive Paxlovid at the discretion of my healthcare professional come the time, based off MOH guidelines and Medsafe protocols.

Just keep swimming...

sbiddle

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#2825184 6-Dec-2021 19:37

Sup:

It is possible that New Zealand saw fomite transmission earlyish in this pandemic.

Consider the cases where Covid appeared out of thin air. The most compelling case is the Man who worked at the Americol foodstore freezing company. This is an import business. This man gets Covid from nowhere.

Later swabs of the work site show "No evidence" however the chain of events is compelling.

And then there was the case of the infected lift button, the wheely bin, the woman who worked at the laundry....for a time, those 'out of nowhere cases' were suggestive of fomite transmission.

The lift button and wheely bin are now pretty clear examples of aerosol spread which we were all in denial about at the time.

As for the others we'll never know, and we weren't genomically sequencing every case in the middle of last year so simply don't know everything.

Sup

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#2825264 6-Dec-2021 20:04

sbiddle:

Sup:

It is possible that New Zealand saw fomite transmission earlyish in this pandemic.

Consider the cases where Covid appeared out of thin air. The most compelling case is the Man who worked at the Americol foodstore freezing company. This is an import business. This man gets Covid from nowhere.

Later swabs of the work site show "No evidence" however the chain of events is compelling.

And then there was the case of the infected lift button, the wheely bin, the woman who worked at the laundry....for a time, those 'out of nowhere cases' were suggestive of fomite transmission.

The lift button and wheely bin are now pretty clear examples of aerosol spread which we were all in denial about at the time.

As for the others we'll never know, and we weren't genomically sequencing every case in the middle of last year so simply don't know everything.

Sure. It is a really hard thing to prove. It is like asking what wet a persons pants? the wet seat they sat on? or the fact that it is raining?

I always find it amusing that fomites are disproved by investigations of surfaces which happen days after viral particles have died and product has moved through a business, after surfaces have been often times been routinely cleaned or touched by people many hundreds of times over.

However none of that really matters, what matters is that we know you only need to breath the stuff in, and that millions of supermarket visits do not equate to millions of cases.

Just keep swimming...

quickymart

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#2825300 6-Dec-2021 21:22

quickymart:

quickymart:

A relative of mine is not anti-vaxx, but she says she would rather get the Jansen (I think Johnson & Johnson) vaccine rather than Pfizer. When I asked her why she paused and said it was due to the MRNA in the Pfizer one. Another relative used to run a chemist for many years, so he's quite clued-up on medicines (although he is not a doctor), and she says he explained the differences between them to her.

As an aside, I told her to ignore the bs from groups like Voices for Freedom; she is fully aware of them and does not pay any attention to them.

While I'm pleased she's not anti-vaxx, should I be concerned at what her concerns are? I worry about her as she is over 60 and while her health is okay, she could be at risk if she got the virus. She said she's going to wait until the latter becomes available. Apparently the J&J one (which I believe is non-MRNA) has been approved, but it's not offered here, right? I told her to talk to her GP to see what they could do for her.

Things get interesting now, turns out the relative who ran the chemist has advised all family on that side not to get the Pfizer vaccine due to there being a family history of heart conditions (which is true), and there could be possible side-effects. What concerned me was when she said "I've been doing my research but I'm not anti vaxx" - pointing out she has had all her other vaccinations, just not the coronavirus one. And I have a feeling she's not talking to me at the moment as I challenged Mr (former) Chemist's viewpoint.

Sigh. Families.

This gets more depressing, I just looked at the former chemist's Facebook page and he's liking all these comments reposted from obvious anti-vaxxers, one of which is the daughter of that guy (someone Baker) of one of the minor parties. I would have thought all politicians would all be into vaxxing - but I guess not.

Anyway (my reason for resurrecting this comment), this relative seems to be a regular anti-vaxxer. Depressing that he was a chemist for so long - I'm talking a few decades here, responsible for dispensing medicines to people. I guess he wouldn't be giving out the vaccine now if he was still doing that for a living.

neb

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#2825360 6-Dec-2021 21:42

Speaking of anti-vaxxers, there's this story about people, and that would include anti-vaxxers, being persuaded to pay a lot of money for, and eat, dirt, because woo-woo.

So they won't take a medically-proven vaccine to defeat a deadly pandemic, but they will consume a random lump of dirt dug out of the ground because woo-woo. Apart from assorted bacteria and whatnot it also contains more than your daily limit of arsenic, but that's natural so it must be OK.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

mattwnz

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#2825384 6-Dec-2021 21:58

Handle9:

This particular one was fronted by the Prime Minister and the Director General and had some quite important info , including about the new drug and the vaccine passports system and questions. The PM was speaking like she was addressing the country.

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Sup

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Ultimate Geek

#2825395 6-Dec-2021 22:22

neb: Speaking of anti-vaxxers, there's this story about people, and that would include anti-vaxxers, being persuaded to pay a lot of money for, and eat, dirt, because woo-woo. So they won't take a medically-proven vaccine to defeat a deadly pandemic, but they will consume a random lump of dirt dug out of the ground because woo-woo. Apart from assorted bacteria and whatnot it also contains more than your daily limit of arsenic, but that's natural so it must be OK. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Contagion, the movie, was predictive with Jude Laws character.

Early on in the pandemic, people in my gaming team would offer the cure. Tibetan tea, some French concoction. There was the bloke in Matamata trying to sell fish tank cleaner.

This is a very old story hey, the guy in a wagon, traveling from village to village, selling his wares

Just keep swimming...

quickymart

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#2825486 7-Dec-2021 07:30

Snake oil salesman?

ezbee

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#2825541 7-Dec-2021 10:31

People Thirsty to Reverse Their Coronavirus Vaccination Love This Wacky ‘Treatment’
https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-vaccination-reversal-fiends-love-this-wacky-treatment?ref=home

The nutcasery goes very deep, including a cures for the vaccine.

One of these 'normally considered safe' cures,
if taken in high doses ( Of course high doses are best ) has following side effects.
Severe skin flushing combined with dizziness
Rapid heartbeat
Itching
Nausea and vomiting
Abdominal pain
Diarrhea
Gout
Liver damage
Diabetes
Supplement has been linked with liver damage, can cause hypotension and might activate a peptic ulcer.

Of course they will blame the vaccine, rather than their completely untested cure.

Vaccine mRNA is gone in 12-24 hours, and body deals to the modified spike proteins days to weeks after.
So nothing to cure, unless you mean to kill off your immune system, antibodies, T-cells etc.

Batman

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#2825548 7-Dec-2021 10:47

China on a child vaccination campaign

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/06/business/china-covid-vaccine-children.html

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2825567 7-Dec-2021 11:26

ezbee:

People Thirsty to Reverse Their Coronavirus Vaccination Love This Wacky ‘Treatment’
https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-vaccination-reversal-fiends-love-this-wacky-treatment?ref=home

The nutcasery goes very deep, including a cures for the vaccine.

One of these 'normally considered safe' cures,
if taken in high doses ( Of course high doses are best ) has following side effects.
Severe skin flushing combined with dizziness
Rapid heartbeat
Itching
Nausea and vomiting
Abdominal pain
Diarrhea
Gout
Liver damage
Diabetes
Supplement has been linked with liver damage, can cause hypotension and might activate a peptic ulcer.

Of course they will blame the vaccine, rather than their completely untested cure.

Vaccine mRNA is gone in 12-24 hours, and body deals to the modified spike proteins days to weeks after.
So nothing to cure, unless you mean to kill off your immune system, antibodies, T-cells etc.

interesting listen. Vitamin B3 Niacin. You see that ingredient heavily promoted on some breakfast cereals.

We are going to see a raft of sick people from theses dangerous treatments hey.

One way to really make sure Covid gives you a good thrashing is to damage the homeostasis of the human body with these toxic regimens.

Just keep swimming...

Batman

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#2826197 7-Dec-2021 18:29

graph showing a bump in vaccination rates after vaccine pass https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-has-the-vaccine-pass-just-driven-a-spike-in-jabs/H7D5RFAUIDD3U7SOG6GS3LNBEI/

Sup

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Ultimate Geek

#2826217 7-Dec-2021 19:35

Batman:

graph showing a bump in vaccination rates after vaccine pass https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-has-the-vaccine-pass-just-driven-a-spike-in-jabs/H7D5RFAUIDD3U7SOG6GS3LNBEI/

So we have increased uptake.

Declining cases.

Summer outdoor activity.

Enhanced immunity plus from a third shot.

Children to increase uptake and reduce the unvaccinated significantly.

Antiviral therapies on the way that massively reduce hospitalization.

Hospital capacity in the system.

A slow build of care at home systems.

Contact tracing.

Testing.

A suite of health measures.

The lowest death and hospital rates in the OECD.

A restart of specific sectors of the economy.

Low Unemployment.

Strong GDP.

Just keep swimming...

Batman

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#2826230 7-Dec-2021 19:38

THere's this creature that starts with the letter O ... crossing fingers and toes

3rd vaccine, 4th vaccine, whatever it takes

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