2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2843890 5-Jan-2022 18:11

freitasm:

@zocster:

Just the time to test this, it has not been proven either way. So I would rather be safe than sorry. 2 years is not enough time for a trial.

Sorry but you are locked out of this discussion now. We can't have anti-vax non-sense in here.

I'm not suggesting that this is what is happening here but this what I typically see with some of the antivaxer discourse:

Pfizer vaccine available

"I want to wait for Astrazenea"

x months later... Astrazena is offered as an option...

"I want to wait for Novavax"

x+y months later... Novavax is offered as an option...

"2 years is too short - I need to wait to see the long term effects"

5 years later...

"Well there isn't a need for the vaccine anymore"

The problem is that the goalposts keep shifting. There is tons of research being done on these vaccines, many scientific and peer reviewed articles, government-health agency reviews... I'm not saying that there is no risk taking a vaccine (there is risk in every thing we do), I'm saying that the "breaking truths" on Facebook etc are not exactly built on a solid fact base. With the sheer metric ton of media attention on all things Covid, you can be assured that any concerns will spread like wildfire.

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#2843891 5-Jan-2022 18:27

gzt:

...

Plus multiple other groups around the world also in search of the holy grail.

One example, in this case initial results from a small Phase 1 trials already available.

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-press-release-discussing-early-data-from-a-phase-1-study-coral-boost-of-a-t-cell-enhanced-self-amplifying-mrna-samrna-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-after-two-doses-of-astrazeneca/

cshwone

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#2843892 5-Jan-2022 18:35

Just been chatting to my daughter in Sydney. She is triple vaxed, works in a very customer focused industry (theater). She and the kids (10 and 7) have had 5 PCR tests each in the last 3 weeks due close contacts. She has to have a RAT every 48 hours. The kids are single vaxed at the moment but booked in for the second as soon as it is available just like they did for the first dose.. They are effectively in a constant state of self-isolation. I fear for her mental health.

Not all is good in the West Island.

Sup

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#2843903 5-Jan-2022 19:04

cshwone:

Just been chatting to my daughter in Sydney. She is triple vaxed, works in a very customer focused industry (theater). She and the kids (10 and 7) have had 5 PCR tests each in the last 3 weeks due close contacts. She has to have a RAT every 48 hours. The kids are single vaxed at the moment but booked in for the second as soon as it is available just like they did for the first dose.. They are effectively in a constant state of self-isolation. I fear for her mental health.

Not all is good in the West Island.

That was interesting thanks for sharing. Out of interest do you mean theater as in the performing arts? (if so that is seriously cool to be able to make a career in a difficult industry) or theater as in operating rooms? (again much respect if that is her field).

It sounds very challenging, and with such a short supply of tests, is her Job supplying the test kits?

I have a friend in country NSW who is immuno compromised, I do get a bit anxious about the NSW data, and also thinking about what that data means for us.

Being isolated away with kids is a tough gig.

The National Rugby league have just brought in very strict player rules, they are not allowed to go to any indoors situations, if they attend a restaurant they have to eat outdoors, Cafes are the same, otherwise no pubs clubs movies etc. No going to visit with people outside their bubble in terms of being in anyone's houses.

Before omicron the NRL had a fairly lax attitude towards antivaxx players, however former NRL star and Kiwis Captain Frank Prtichard spent New Years Eve in an induced Coma due to Covid, collapsed Lung, and asthma complications. Fortunately he bounced back the following day.

The NRL rules for unvaxxed players are incredibly strict, they are not allowed to eat with the other players or shower etc.

Some industries are under siege with this thing, it is really challenging to keep working and to try to protect families.

Just keep swimming...

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#2843905 5-Jan-2022 19:11

Scott3:

SJB:

Tried to book a booster jab online today and still seems to be insisting on 6 months.

4 month walk ins start today, with bookings to open on the 17th of Jan.

This makes little sense; but assume has something to do with Holiday Change Freeze and refusal to update their website - the policy was announced before Christmas, so there'd have been plenty of time for code amendment and testing if the holidays hadn't been in the way, one would think.

Sup

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#2843909 5-Jan-2022 19:23

wellygary:

KrazyKid:

Out of interested does anyone know how many Rapid Tests NZ has on order?

I know we got 300k in October and the last figure I think I heard in a press release was we have 150K arriving on a monthly basis ,
(Not sure in this though)

You would have to assume if this is all we have we going to be way short of what we need.

This is from December ... but the MoH said similar things about having lots of PPE and masks at the beginning of the Outbreak, and there were still issues with them filtering out to the Frontlines.

"The ministry has 1.5 million rapid antigen tests in its national central supply, in addition to those it has sent out.
"Further deliveries of 1.5 million per month are in place for the first half of next year."
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/457929/demand-for-rapid-antigen-tests-ramps-up-in-auckland-as-border-reopens

Thanks for that update. Taking a positive glass half full look at the plans for the National stock pile we are better placed than I thought.

It will be interesting to see how we disperse the tests. NSW look like they are going to use them at existing testing sites.

Which makes sense, a positive RAT you might as well leave the queue and go home and be clocked as a Covid case by the staff.

I imagine Our leaders will be on the Telly a lot telling people not to present for testing without being symptomatic or a household contact.

If people take that message on board, we could cycle through the testing in a livable fashion. Clearly you will not capture anywhere near the numbers but at least you will give people, who may later end up very unwell, a diagnostic heads up.

Just keep swimming...

tdgeek

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#2843974 5-Jan-2022 20:24

gzt:
zocster: I've just made the decision to go the other direction. Few papers like here, here and here suggests Astra is better.

The second two links news articles were interesting. The idea that AZ may offer longer protection seems to be based on inference rather than direct evidence. It would be nice if it's true. I'm sure there are some things to learn there. Also note even if it's found to be longer lasting this will not change the fact that AZ is marginally less effective as far as anyone knows.

The other interesting part was a small number of vaccine hesitant in Australia putting off getting AZ and waiting for the Pfizer jab instead : )

Whats the next best thing? Should I wait a while for the next big thing? Or maybe todays big thing works great then wanes fast? Cut your losses get it now. There will be another booster round, we will know a bit more then, and so on.

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#2843975 5-Jan-2022 20:25

cokemaster:

The problem is that the goalposts keep shifting.

100%.

I'll buy todays goalpost. Today.

MaxineN

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#2843991 5-Jan-2022 21:42

I'm going in with my fiancée to get our third booster Pfizer tomorrow at our usual pharmacy if they have capacity, if not I will book us both in asap.

tdgeek:

100%.

I'll buy todays goalpost. Today.

Nah I'm gonna either tell people to get it done or face the consequences. Anyone saying they'll wait for something else obviously does not believe in the science or refuses to trust not only the health experts who even developed the Pfizer vaccine in the first place but they also don't trust their doctors and the people around them. They're already not worth engaging. The fact that someone outed themselves in this very thread in that very way just tells me they're not at all thinking straight and are over covid. Don't worry, all of us are mate except we're helping each other and actually getting the job done. Using delay tactics and saying I won't get this I'll get the other is just delaying not only normality but you will be the class of people that didn't trust the experts in the first place.

I refuse to allow goal post moving. Either you get vaxx'd straight away and get your booster straight away or I won't even acknowledge your existence.

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

gzt

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#2844034 5-Jan-2022 23:18

Turns out Djokovic was anti-vax before covid vaccines were even available. April 2020:

Rolling Stone: “Personally, I am opposed to vaccination, and I wouldn’t want to be forced by someone to take a vaccine in order to be able to travel,” he said. “But if it becomes compulsory, what will happen? I will have to make a decision. I have my own thoughts about the matter, and whether those thoughts will change at some point, I don’t know.”

Possibility that means he was on the anti-vax bus that started with Andrew Wakefield's bad math on autism/vaccine association.

Scott3

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#2844040 6-Jan-2022 00:53

On AstraZeneca, it is a safe & effective vaccine. As such I respect everybody who chooses to get it, regardless or reason.

Being a largely technical forum, we get hung up on the differing safety and effectiveness profiles of the various brands. But often the differences are small. But the bottom line is from an individual perspective, all the approved vaccines have an acceptable safety profile, and all provide decent protection against severe disease.

From a population health perspective, the issue with AstraZenica for NZ right now, is that early research is showing that they do little to nothing to stop / slow the spread of Omicron. Evidence is that Pfizer with a booster does (although it but still isn't great: some data has it at 70% effective against omicron infection at 1 week, and 45% at 10 weeks).

Given the threat of a omicron wave, I think our officials have got it largely right in promoting Pfizer, incl the booster program.

zocster:

Has anyone got trial numbers of pfizer on 5-11? Mine are 12 so yeah I think they'll be fine with the novavax.

Understand the poster is now locked out of this thread, but for completeness (from somebody who thinks Novavax shows serious promise, and would have taken it as my booster if it had of been available when I became eligible):

NZ placed an order for Novavax back in 2020. 5.36m courses. That order is still open, and there is no public timeline for delivery. Should note that Novavax's production issues have been well publicized. And also should not that the presence of an order doesn't mean the vaccine will be offered in NZ (Medsafe have approved the Janssen vaccine, and we have an advance purchase agreement for 2m doses, but it has not been made available.)
Novavax is not yet approved for Use in NZ. med-safe is currently considering it for those aged 18 or older (I think this is due to 18 - 84 age range covered in the trial). https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/status-of-applications.asp
At 12, children are able to give their own informed consent to be vaccinated.

So in short, No Novavax for under 18's.

Scott3

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#2844045 6-Jan-2022 01:09

Sup:

At some point the daily testing positivity rate in NSW will be a representative sample of the total population figure with some accuracy.

On today's rate that would be 2.8 million cases. perhaps then, Perhaps.

NZ will have to do things radically differently, or perhaps not, maybe we could also just post fake daily figures and go with that, it has worked for America the entire pandemic.

NSW test's (like ours) are targeted at people who are symptomatic or close contact, so positivity rate should be way higher than what a random sample of the population would be. Would be be really interesting to know the results of a random sample.

And it would be really interesting to break out "from covid" & "with covid" in the hospitlisation & death numbers.

But still, wow. Positivist in the ballpark of 1/3rd... (Dates of tests & results don't exactly line up).

Pritty glad other countries are being the lab rats for us on omicron.

GV27

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#2844069 6-Jan-2022 08:33

I doubt half the anti-vaxxers would be on their bullshit about 'two years not being long enough for a trial' (for an immunisation developed in response to a pandemic that's a little under two years old - were you expecting a five year trial? JFC) if this was something like Ebola or other hemorrhagic fever that made you bleed from every hole in your body.

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#2844093 6-Jan-2022 08:56

zocster:

Just the time to test this, it has not been proven either way. So I would rather be safe than sorry. 2 years is not enough time for a trial.

Waiting just gives them more time to perfect that nano-chip.

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#2844108 6-Jan-2022 09:47

High profile anti-vaxx drama https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/tennis-novak-djokovic-lands-in-australia-but-is-held-by-border-force-officials/VSCOXX2A7I7JLVI6B4QRHZOVV4/

I feel the aussies pain to allow Djokovic in, but now he is held by airport security guards... and Djokovic funs threatens to hold protest? kick him out and his crew. Stay firm on the antivaxx rules - this will be consistent message to anyone who is antivaxx by choice.

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