2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2845471 8-Jan-2022 22:16

Oblivian: Today's quizz.. United states of new zealand signed its constitution in what year...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwi-fashion-blogger-and-socialite-jaime-ridge-hits-out-at-jacinda-ardern-over-miq/5HH6ZJH23DWQZTWGTUSF7CTRLM/

""Number 9000 in the 'queue' yesterday and I'm just absolutely baffled. The flights are booked and have been for weeks, then the govt changed the rules (again) ... Who is running this show. A complete lack of competence. Just a bunch of muppets."

No, sweetheart. This is what happens during a pandemic. It's not muppets. You chose to be away. Deal with it.

""@jacindaardern your lack of compassion for those people abroad is mind boggling. You need to learn to practice what you preach." Some of Ridge's most recent posts show her visiting and dining in LA museums and Palm Springs resort spas."

The Prime Minister and cabinet are doing what's best for this country. This person on the other hand seems to be taking holidays and complaining.

ezbee

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#2845478 8-Jan-2022 22:36

What the world needs more of, fashion bloggers, socialites, influences and TV reality stars.
How did civilization progress without them.

Well Canada has been forced to assist repatriation of a rowdy planeload, influencers and reality TV actors.
From Cancun, they were so bad on trip there airline refused to allow them on return flight.

Canada party plane influencer 'idiots' fly home to face music
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/459221/canada-party-plane-influencer-idiots-fly-home-to-face-music

""
She said she had tested positive for Covid-19 on Wednesday, and was not sure to how to pay for her hotel stay. She estimated about 30 people from the plane had tested positive.
""
St Pierre added that some travelers had planned to put vaseline up their nose for their return trip, in an effort to thwart Covid-19 testing.

Other stranded passengers include reality TV actors.
""

Scott3

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#2845493 8-Jan-2022 23:51

Oblivian: Today's quizz.. United states of new zealand signed its constitution in what year...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwi-fashion-blogger-and-socialite-jaime-ridge-hits-out-at-jacinda-ardern-over-miq/5HH6ZJH23DWQZTWGTUSF7CTRLM/

Constitution Act 1986?

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1986/0114/latest/whole.html#DLM94204

But part of it does explicit give the parliament of New Zealand the power to make laws....

freitasm:

""Number 9000 in the 'queue' yesterday and I'm just absolutely baffled. The flights are booked and have been for weeks, then the govt changed the rules (again) ... Who is running this show. A complete lack of competence. Just a bunch of muppets."

No, sweetheart. This is what happens during a pandemic. It's not muppets. You chose to be away. Deal with it.

""@jacindaardern your lack of compassion for those people abroad is mind boggling. You need to learn to practice what you preach." Some of Ridge's most recent posts show her visiting and dining in LA museums and Palm Springs resort spas."

The Prime Minister and cabinet are doing what's best for this country. This person on the other hand seems to be taking holidays and complaining.

Regarding travel from the USA to NZ, I think the self isolation date has only been changed once, when it was pushed back a couple of weeks (from 13th feb, untill the end of Feb). The reaction in social media seems overblown for such a minor change.

Reading between the lines, it seems the plan is to not to extend the date further if omicron is already circulating in the community. So their is a decent chance this date won't be moved again.

https://covid19.govt.nz/news-and-data/latest-news/omicron-governments-plan-to-minimise-risk/

SJB

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#2845559 9-Jan-2022 08:10

There's someone at the MOH with a real sense of humor.

First they talk about close contact at a massage parlor now they want everyone at two music festivals to get tested and self isolate until the results come back.

Good luck with that.

Sup

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#2845795 9-Jan-2022 17:41

16 deaths in NSW.

The virus has found its way into the over 60s.

Fortunately in this country the older aged groups are mainly vaccinated across all ethnicities.

I think we will be in for a bit of an omicron shock here. Mainly because we have protected the unvaccinated so well to date and because with omicron we can no longer wrap a vaccine wall around them.

The Data out of the US is looking as though omicron at best is about as damaging as Delta among the unvaccinated thanks to the extent of the spread finding the people who will need hospital and the people who will die.

Some days in America an omicron wave means 2000 deaths.

What is milder on individuals is not milder on populations of scale. Peak omicron hospitalizations in the US is at 100K, Delta was not a lot higher.

Peak ICU use with omicron thus far in the US is 20K, vs peak Delta numbers at 28K.

So per capita something may be milder, but through sheer everywhere all at once volumes omicron is racing in the US to catch the total damage of a Delta wave.

Kids are another story, Kids are not doing as well with omicron.

All things for us to consider.

But for the average poster here the real world threat of omicron is disruption. Vaccinated people are well protected. The issue is with disruption, which is why NSW just ruled that essential workers do not need to self isolate in the absence of symptoms, even if they are close contacts.

Just keep swimming...

ajobbins

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#2845803 9-Jan-2022 17:52

Oblivian: Today's quizz.. United states of new zealand signed its constitution in what year...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwi-fashion-blogger-and-socialite-jaime-ridge-hits-out-at-jacinda-ardern-over-miq/5HH6ZJH23DWQZTWGTUSF7CTRLM/

Probably a poor choice of word, but I assume she will be referring to the position that denying entry to NZ for citizens is a breach of the Bill of Rights Act 1990, which is what is being taken to court for judicial review at the end of the month by the Grounded Kiwi's group.

Twitter: ajobbins

ajobbins

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#2845807 9-Jan-2022 18:06

SJB:

vexxxboy:

even more so when they are just on a holiday

even more so when they are just a fashion blogger and socialite on a holiday.

Corrected that for you. About as useful to society as bad breath.

There is enough to criticise about the post from this person without resorting to ad hominem. I'm a bit sick of the numerous reckons appearing from people with influence in the media as well but this, in my opinion, doesn't help.

My 2 cents - I don't think this person (or anyone) being able to take a holiday diminishes the impact of being separated from family, friends and your homeland at all.

But there is an underlying view that most people who are outside of New Zealand hold, which is not that MIQ needs to be abolished right now, but that it should be fairer.

How is it fair that celebrities like The Wiggles or a bunch of DJs get to visit (in some cases more than once) without having to participate in a literal lottery like actual citizens do?

How is it fair that some people with luck and means (I personally know two such people) are able to visit more than once (for short periods) then leave again while others miss out in every lottery.

NZ, for the moment, is doing the right thing buying time to better understand Omicron and prepare for it's eventual arrival. Pretty much everyone I know holds that view, but I really think the govt have dropped the ball on the process of allocating spaces in MIQ and that process is inherently but needlessly unfair.

Twitter: ajobbins

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kyhwana2

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#2845808 9-Jan-2022 18:10

ajobbins:

[

But there is an underlying view that most people who are outside of New Zealand hold, which is not that MIQ needs to be abolished right now, but that it should be fairer.

How is it fair that celebrities like The Wiggles or a bunch of DJs get to visit (in some cases more than once) without having to participate in a literal lottery like actual citizens do?

How is it fair that some people with luck and means (I personally know two such people) are able to visit more than once (for short periods) then leave again while others miss out in every lottery.

Besides not allowing DJs and any other entertainer or executive, how would you make it fairer?

We've tried "first in, first served" and it didn't work/people didn't like it. We've tried "lottery" and people don't like it.

The only thing left is to force people to submit all kinds of supporting paperwork and reasons for why they should get into MIQ and then hundreds/thousands of government bureaucrats to spend forever triaging and going through every submission and deciding who to let in or not.

Ge0rge

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#2845813 9-Jan-2022 18:26

ajobbins:
How is it fair that celebrities like The Wiggles or a bunch of DJs get to visit (in some cases more than once) without having to participate in a literal lottery like actual citizens do?

How is it fair that some people with luck and means (I personally know two such people) are able to visit more than once (for short periods) then leave again while others miss out in every lottery.

The DJ had a special visa, but participated in the MIQ voucher release just like everyone else - there was no special treatment or VIP process that allowed them to get rooms. Your statement about them not "participating in a lottery like everyone else" is absolutely incorrect.

Also bear in mind that multiple voucher releases in Nov and Dec closed with left over rooms - there were more rooms than people who applied for them.

The whining noise you hear from these "influencers" etc is that they can't come and go when it pleases them.

ajobbins

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#2845814 9-Jan-2022 18:27

kyhwana2:

Besides not allowing DJs and any other entertainer or executive, how would you make it fairer?

We've tried "first in, first served" and it didn't work/people didn't like it. We've tried "lottery" and people don't like it.

The only thing left is to force people to submit all kinds of supporting paperwork and reasons for why they should get into MIQ and then hundreds/thousands of government bureaucrats to spend forever triaging and going through every submission and deciding who to let in or not.

There is lots that could be done

Ensure that no one gets a second turn in MIQ unless everyone else trying to enter NZ has been offered a spot.
If it has to be a lottery, allow people to register interest and join a waitlist that persists across releases. This gives people more certainty (and far less anxiety) around where they are in the queue and is fairer than resetting the odds every time.
Stop all 'economic' allocation of spots. The economy will do fine without a few DJs and sports people for a while.
Release more regularly and make rooms available that are no longer required by others. This used to be the case but no longer is. If a spot is given up it should automatically be available to the next people in the queue.
Require pre-payment of spots, or at least a deposit. I know if at least one case of someone booking a room and securing it against refundable flights because they weren't sure if they really wanted to travel at that point. They subsequently cancelled a few days before they were due to travel, and the room likley went empty. Requiring a deposit would weed out any of this plus make the likelihood of cost recovery higher. This also covers people 'grabbing' a voucher at release time then not subsequently booking the fight required to use it. In those cases, and I understand there are some each release, again mean that spot is lost as it does not get reallocated to the pool.
Expand the capacity. Available spots are at some of their lowest levels in pandemic. Rooms are going empty all the time because of the cohorting changes and the fact relinquished rooms are not put back into the pool. The prior release also saw a number of rooms not taken but as soon as the 'release' ends, they are no longer available. These rooms would have certainly be filled if they were available to book beyond the short release window of a few hours - which was again in the middle of the night for some of the world.

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Reanalyse

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#2845827 9-Jan-2022 19:02

Amid the gloom and dire predictions, and all the noise from and about the anti-vax, I noticed the double dose vaccinated rates are beyond what I would have thought : 97% for Auckland DHB, 94% for Waitamata and 92% for Counties Manukau. Well done all, and I am sure other areas will also really have done well.

alexx

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#2845830 9-Jan-2022 19:13

ajobbins:

kyhwana2:

Besides not allowing DJs and any other entertainer or executive, how would you make it fairer?

We've tried "first in, first served" and it didn't work/people didn't like it. We've tried "lottery" and people don't like it.

The only thing left is to force people to submit all kinds of supporting paperwork and reasons for why they should get into MIQ and then hundreds/thousands of government bureaucrats to spend forever triaging and going through every submission and deciding who to let in or not.

There is lots that could be done

Ensure that no one gets a second turn in MIQ unless everyone else trying to enter NZ has been offered a spot.
If it has to be a lottery, allow people to register interest and join a waitlist that persists across releases. This gives people more certainty (and far less anxiety) around where they are in the queue and is fairer than resetting the odds every time.
Stop all 'economic' allocation of spots. The economy will do fine without a few DJs and sports people for a while.
Release more regularly and make rooms available that are no longer required by others. This used to be the case but no longer is. If a spot is given up it should automatically be available to the next people in the queue.
Require pre-payment of spots, or at least a deposit. I know if at least one case of someone booking a room and securing it against refundable flights because they weren't sure if they really wanted to travel at that point. They subsequently cancelled a few days before they were due to travel, and the room likley went empty. Requiring a deposit would weed out any of this plus make the likelihood of cost recovery higher. This also covers people 'grabbing' a voucher at release time then not subsequently booking the fight required to use it. In those cases, and I understand there are some each release, again mean that spot is lost as it does not get reallocated to the pool.
Expand the capacity. Available spots are at some of their lowest levels in pandemic. Rooms are going empty all the time because of the cohorting changes and the fact relinquished rooms are not put back into the pool. The prior release also saw a number of rooms not taken but as soon as the 'release' ends, they are no longer available. These rooms would have certainly be filled if they were available to book beyond the short release window of a few hours - which was again in the middle of the night for some of the world.

There were spare rooms in MIQ during the Nov/Dec room releases, that people didn't take up, so I'm not sure what problem some of these things would solve for Jaime Ridge.

From the MIQ site 25 Nov, "the number of available rooms was 3,411, but not all rooms were taken"
https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/news/no-one-left-in-the-queue-for-miqs-ninth-voucher-release-via-virtual-lobby-25-nov-2021/

Also 30 Nov
https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/news/no-one-left-in-the-queue-again-for-miqs-10th-voucher-release-via-virtual-lobby-30-nov-2021/
7 Dec
https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/news/miqs-11th-voucher-release-via-virtual-lobby-7-dec-2021/
16 Dec
https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/news/miqs-12th-voucher-release-838-rooms-not-taken-16-dec-2021/

The strange thing is, when it's a DJ or sometimes even a returning NZ musician, there are people complaining about how those DJs/musicians are preventing tens (or hundreds) of thousands of Kiwi's from returning home. But when there is a visiting cricket team, those same people don't say a word.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

vexxxboy

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#2845832 9-Jan-2022 19:15

Sup:

16 deaths in NSW.

The virus has found its way into the over 60s.

Fortunately in this country the older aged groups are mainly vaccinated across all ethnicities.

I think we will be in for a bit of an omicron shock here. Mainly because we have protected the unvaccinated so well to date and because with omicron we can no longer wrap a vaccine wall around them.

The Data out of the US is looking as though omicron at best is about as damaging as Delta among the unvaccinated thanks to the extent of the spread finding the people who will need hospital and the people who will die.

Some days in America an omicron wave means 2000 deaths.

What is milder on individuals is not milder on populations of scale. Peak omicron hospitalizations in the US is at 100K, Delta was not a lot higher.

Peak ICU use with omicron thus far in the US is 20K, vs peak Delta numbers at 28K.

So per capita something may be milder, but through sheer everywhere all at once volumes omicron is racing in the US to catch the total damage of a Delta wave.

Kids are another story, Kids are not doing as well with omicron.

All things for us to consider.

But for the average poster here the real world threat of omicron is disruption. Vaccinated people are well protected. The issue is with disruption, which is why NSW just ruled that essential workers do not need to self isolate in the absence of symptoms, even if they are close contacts.

USA is an interesting case , they never had Delta under control , in fact they were in a big forth wave when Omicron hit, and the country is around 63% fully vaccinated, Southern States way less than that. Nearly all restrictions were dropped the main one being mask wearing, there was only one thing omicron was going to do and it has,and that was rage out of control.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Oblivian

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#2845899 9-Jan-2022 20:58

It's time to start the music
It's time to light the lights
It's time to get things started, on the muppet show tonight

Tamaki reportedly spoke at the event, in a possible breach of his bail conditions, though a Destiny spokesman told NZME the event was a "family picnic", not a protest

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/destiny-church-leader-brian-tamaki-attends-anti-vax-protest-police-investigating/M7CONTJRQ7NR5ZS7TKSSZGWFDE/

alexx

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#2845903 9-Jan-2022 21:10

Oblivian: It's time to start the music
It's time to light the lights
It's time to get things started, on the muppet show tonight

Tamaki reportedly spoke at the event, in a possible breach of his bail conditions, though a Destiny spokesman told NZME the event was a "family picnic", not a protest

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/destiny-church-leader-brian-tamaki-attends-anti-vax-protest-police-investigating/M7CONTJRQ7NR5ZS7TKSSZGWFDE/

I wonder if he presented his vaccine passport to get on the flight to Christchurch.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

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