2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#3016914 4-Jan-2023 16:53

cshwone:

Was that a Tui moment?

The lack of transparency from China around variants, case numbers, in fact everything Covid worries me. Having had it twice and still suffering from my last exposure 4 months ago is not great.

Not at all re Tui. Covid is everywhere, and in NZ everywhere. The reason that we have no restrictions is that we can live with it, as our vaccination rate is high. Whether you or I catch it from the neighbour, a kid who went to a school concert, or a traveller from the myriad of countries that arrive daily, its the same deal for Kiwi residents.

tdgeek

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#3016916 4-Jan-2023 17:00

Yes the lack of transparency is biblical. As usual. I read the other day they had millions of cases and one death. Didn't quite mirror the anonymous health workers account of the state of hospitals and crematoriums. Beggars belief that the state can say what they say and not wonder what the rest of the world thinks. But that's the way it always is. The level of anti support for the dictatorship appears to be at record levels. Well, according to my wife and MII who are both there and are both proud of China (especiaily the MIL unsurprisingly) but annecdotally they say the level of discontent and lack of trust is through the roof. There is quite a level of uncensored or 'quiet" social media there, so what they say isnt just their two person opinion.

Oblivian

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#3016917 4-Jan-2023 17:03

You're missing a small detail there

We're jabbed to the hilt for delta. Which happened to work reasonably for omicron by a stroke of luck. And unless you're over 50 a lot of us have been over 12 months and waning.

Remember how omicron come about? It was uncontrolled spread in Africa and India. When they had full morgues and couldn't keep up/ahead.

What's happening in China atm?.... De ja vu. But with even less effective immunity to stop it.

They're refusing to do sequencing. And only losing "3" people a day. Despite the videos to the contrary.

God forbid 'living with it' would mean were all screwed by XBB.1.5s next brother. (Which is spreading like wildfire asking to mutate and already avoids antivirals)

quickymart

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#3016928 4-Jan-2023 17:31

https://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=149762

I heard about this in the news last night, there was some talk that the mother may have fallen down the anti-vaxx rabbit hole - hopefully this is not the case though.

Technofreak

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#3016939 4-Jan-2023 18:01

quickymart:

https://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=149762

I heard about this in the news last night, there was some talk that the mother may have fallen down the anti-vaxx rabbit hole - hopefully this is not the case though.

Why would you drive to all that way to Wellington to see someone who nominally works in Wellington is on holiday and who doesn't live in Wellington?

They are not likely to be there are they?

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tdgeek

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#3017020 4-Jan-2023 19:47

Oblivian: You're missing a small detail there

We're jabbed to the hilt for delta. Which happened to work reasonably for omicron by a stroke of luck. And unless you're over 50 a lot of us have been over 12 months and waning.

Remember how omicron come about? It was uncontrolled spread in Africa and India. When they had full morgues and couldn't keep up/ahead.

What's happening in China atm?.... De ja vu. But with even less effective immunity to stop it.

They're refusing to do sequencing. And only losing "3" people a day. Despite the videos to the contrary.

God forbid 'living with it' would mean were all screwed by XBB.1.5s next brother. (Which is spreading like wildfire asking to mutate and already avoids antivirals)

AFAIK being infected with "x" variant, only protects you from "x" variant. The vaccine protects you from Covid. A general vaccine

Omicron wasnt a stroke of luck. Its SARS2 thats what the vaccine protects. Herd Immunity from Omicron protects you only from Omicron.

Africa/India. They had 95%+ vaccines?

No sequencing/ losing 3 people a day? Thats China/Trump, etc We all know what the truth is. China has low vaccination, especially with the elderly, and thats a true facepalm. And China uses a low efficacy vaccine as its "their own" Im talking PRNK attitude here

Living with it? Yes we do. We could lock down for another 3 years, and forbid arrivals, perfect. But thats not feasible. If we vaccinate as many as we can (and we have) we can and will get the better side of Diminishing Returns.

I totally get your point. My wife is Chinese, she is PRO China, but like most of them they are very very very anti that establishment. But back to free arrival. The health experts say its ok, so the Govt says its ok. Im ok with that. We could add restrictions, Ive no issue with that as there is no big deal with RAT tests. What do you do with Germany arrivals? Those from Estonia? Those from Japan/USA? Are they all 100% safe from China? No. Its a global pandemic, either you lock out everyone or you protect yourself. NZ did the latter

Oblivian

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#3017035 4-Jan-2023 20:31

If we vaccinate as many as we can (and we have) we can and will get the better side of Diminishing Returns.

We vaccinated the population with the initial. Surely if it covers them ALL, there wouldn't be a refined one being used for boosters now?. All the while disposing of millions a month while it's known to wain?. I don't expect status quo to last long.

The US was highly jabbed up too. Like us?. Have you met XBB.1.5... It's the one evading and increasing cases globally.. again, Despite this. There has been not enough data to match hospitilasation numbers directly (probably due the same lack of testing/sequencing now)

Most recent wastewater surveillance data for this country on the ESR dashboard is for December 18. It doesn’t show any XBB.1.5. The XBB variant, from which XBB.1.5 evolved, accounted for just 3.7% of the Sars-Cov-2 detected.

I'm not suggesting lock us down again. No-one has an answer. Or we would have had it already, clearly.

But can't also write it off as 'oh well how bad too sad we did what we can, move on' when once again, a new variant despite global efforts is ramping up infection rates (and at the same time further evasion) at the mercy of others that cocked up. It kinda needs to be kept in focus.

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tdgeek

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#3017041 4-Jan-2023 20:49

Oblivian:

I'm not suggesting lock us down again. No-one has an answer. Or we would have had it already, clearly.

But can't also write it off as 'oh well how bad too sad we did what we can, move on' when once again, a new variant despite global efforts is ramping up infection rates (and at the same time further evasion) at the mercy of others that cocked up. It kinda needs to be kept in focus.

I agree with this. Locking us down to get a "Covid Free Nation" is a gulf between forgeting about it. We, I feel, dont agree with either extreme. The distaste from the public means lockdowns or any restrictions are off the table. So, its all "fine" now, lets see what happens. Lets say China exposed us (and thats far from a likelihood) then we adapt. We could be conservative and lock China out, then we find that that was a bad decision. RAT tests for departure are far from locking China out, and if we did, that, I see no issue. Its very minor. But with Covid being less and less serious, and with life, socialability and economies being a key to modern Humans, we need to live with it and adapt. The standard stance is that it will become endemic and mild. The common cold is a Covid virus. Thats the ideal end game, and nature as it is, probably likely.

vexxxboy

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#3017815 6-Jan-2023 14:22

Oblivian:

If we vaccinate as many as we can (and we have) we can and will get the better side of Diminishing Returns.

We vaccinated the population with the initial. Surely if it covers them ALL, there wouldn't be a refined one being used for boosters now?. All the while disposing of millions a month while it's known to wain?. I don't expect status quo to last long.

The US was highly jabbed up too. Like us?. Have you met XBB.1.5... It's the one evading and increasing cases globally.. again, Despite this. There has been not enough data to match hospitilasation numbers directly (probably due the same lack of testing/sequencing now)

Most recent wastewater surveillance data for this country on the ESR dashboard is for December 18. It doesn’t show any XBB.1.5. The XBB variant, from which XBB.1.5 evolved, accounted for just 3.7% of the Sars-Cov-2 detected.

I'm not suggesting lock us down again. No-one has an answer. Or we would have had it already, clearly.

But can't also write it off as 'oh well how bad too sad we did what we can, move on' when once again, a new variant despite global efforts is ramping up infection rates (and at the same time further evasion) at the mercy of others that cocked up. It kinda needs to be kept in focus.

The USA is not highly jabbed , overall it is around 68% fully vaccinated and some states are even worse. Texas is only 62% and some Southern states are around 50%

Common sense is not as common as you think.

ezbee

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#3017838 6-Jan-2023 15:21

For those with at least 3 vaccinations like us there is little to worry about.
A 3rd or 4th well spaced seems to result in sufficent diversity of immunity.
Getting a little sick is not so bad if you don't get seriously ill.

There are antivirals seem to be effective for immune compromised, and older.
If you get onto them 'quickly' within very few days.

Elderly elderly and people needing a whole raft of operations that suppress immunity in Hospital its trickier.

The Flight sewer testing is really so we know how things go re flights from various locales and we can provide information for travelers to self-manage their risks.

Considering conditions in China.
I think we might consider providing China flights with information packs on how to get a free mRNA.
Some self-tests and information letting them know we won't lock them without food in a fire hazard.
Should they self-report a positive test they get treatment not imprisonment.
Number for Chinese language helpline.
A gesture of friendship that would also help set them up for the future.

Given ineffectiveness of Sinovac it would be the right thing to do to make sure they can get mRNA and treatment quickly and feel safe to do so.

For most of us getting a stern dose of RSV from goodness knows where is probably biggest concern now.
It seems it can be quite unpleasant.

wellygary

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#3017841 6-Jan-2023 15:33

ezbee:

Considering conditions in China.
I think we might consider providing China flights with information packs on how to get a free mRNA.
Some self-tests and information letting them know we won't lock them without food in a fire hazard.
Should they self-report a positive test they get treatment not imprisonment.
Number for Chinese language helpline.
A gesture of friendship that would also help set them up for the future.

Couple of points regarding flights from China,

Mainland China is not a visa waiver country, so their will be a lag of at least a couple of weeks before we start actually getting any "tourists"

Its most likely to be VFRs ( Visit Friends and Relatives) travellers, so many will have local connections,

plus another large portion will be NZers who are VFRing back to China and then returning here..

Also the number of flights and airlines operating between China and NZ are still quite low.

We are not going to get 1000s of Chinese Tour groups arriving at Auckland Airport next week...

Batman

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#3017870 6-Jan-2023 16:28

vexxxboy:
The USA is not highly jabbed , overall it is around 68% fully vaccinated and some states are even worse. Texas is only 62% and some Southern states are around 50%

I'm not sure on a country that has had wave after wave of covid, whether vaccination is useful anymore. Most of those still alive all had the real thing at least once.

Have visited recently, life has gone back to normal, in states controlled by either party,are the same.

vexxxboy

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#3017932 6-Jan-2023 17:17

Batman:
vexxxboy:

The USA is not highly jabbed , overall it is around 68% fully vaccinated and some states are even worse. Texas is only 62% and some Southern states are around 50%

I'm not sure on a country that has had wave after wave of covid, whether vaccination is useful anymore. Most of those still alive all had the real thing at least once.

Have visited recently, life has gone back to normal, in states controlled by either party,are the same.

the problem is they will get wave after wave and with the new strain even easier to catch it is going to go through some states rapidly and fill the hospitals again, we are better protected from that happening here on such a big scale.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

sir1963

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#3018029 6-Jan-2023 20:29

vexxxboy:

the problem is they will get wave after wave and with the new strain even easier to catch it is going to go through some states rapidly and fill the hospitals again, we are better protected from that happening here on such a big scale.

Yep, we MUST protect our health sector. It's not in good shape already.

Getting new GPs if we start training them now are 10 years away.

As in all things government run, health, education, law and order, roading, etc etc etc have progressively been run down.

If you have ever voted for a tax cut, do NOT complain about how long things take, its NOT because public services are lazy, its just that they are overworked and underpaid and you actually are getting what you pay for.

Batman

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#3018071 7-Jan-2023 05:19

vexxxboy:
:
vexxxboy:

The USA is not highly jabbed , overall it is around 68% fully vaccinated and some states are even worse. Texas is only 62% and some Southern states are around 50%

the problem is they will get wave after wave and with the new strain even easier to catch it is going to go through some states rapidly and fill the hospitals again, we are better protected from that happening here on such a big scale.

Comparing their poor vaccination rate vs our excellent Vax rate, what is current moment the difference in hospitalizations and deaths?

Serious question, wondering if anyone knows

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