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Sideface
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  #2443535 22-Mar-2020 10:06
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NOTE THAT THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE RELATES TO THE USA - NOT TO NEW ZEALAND

 

The Washington Post - Coronavirus Updates

 

today

 

 

President Trump and members of Congress failed to heed repeated early warnings from U.S. intelligence agencies about the outbreak's potential severity, according to a blockbuster story in The Washington Post

 

Despite CIA and national intelligence reports from January and February that the coronavirus had the potential to sweep the globe, Trump continued to trust (and tweet) the Chinese government's false claims that its spread was being controlled. 

 

“The system was blinking red,” a U.S. official told The Post. “They just couldn’t get him to do anything about it.”

 

The crisis is now upon us, with more than 70 million Americans living under stay-at-home orders in California, New York and Illinois, and signs that other states may be preparing to follow suit. 

 

The U.S. has seen more than 260 deaths and 22,000 confirmed cases of the virus - climbing fast - but the true number of infections is almost certainly much higher due to a shortage of tests. 

 

Health officials in New York, California and other hard-hit parts of the country are restricting coronavirus testing to health-care workers and people who are hospitalized, signaling “the battle to contain the virus is lost.”

 

In frustration, some people have started buying fraudulent “home-test kits,” prompting warnings from the FDA.

 

The virus has infected Americans from every walk of life - most severely the immunocompromised and elderly, but also athletes, entertainers, lawmakers and, as of Friday, an employee in the office of Vice President Pence, who leads the White House coronavirus task force and will be tested for the disease. 

 

The combination of mass infections and mass quarantines are threatening an economic crisis unprecedented in modern history. 

 

Some financial analysts predict the economy will shrink at an annual rate of 14 percent to 30 percent in the next few months. Bank of America Merrill Lynch expects the government to report about 3 million newly unemployed Americans next week - “more than four times the record high set in the depths of the 1982 recession.”

 

Civic life is being shuttered across the United States. Hospitals are warning of shortages or closures without emergency aid. At least 73 senior care centers in 22 states have reported infections. Many local court systems have effectively shut down, firefighters are calling in sick, and the mayor of Dayton is worried the city will soon lack funds to pick up the trash.

 

Trump's hotel and resort business has been hit hard in the chaos. His prized Mar-a-Lago Club has been effectively shuttered by order of Florida's governor. The president has touted a gargantuan $1 trillion-plus stimulus bill being hammered out in Congress, even as he resists pleas for the federal government to send medical supplies and other aid directly to the states. The U.S. government is “not a shipping clerk,” Trump told reporters this week.

 

Experts worry that the twin medical and economic crises could last far longer than we are prepared for, even into November's national election, forcing officials to contemplate the hugely difficult and expensive possibility of an entire nation voting by mail.

 

As he was during the outbreak's early spread in January, Trump remains upbeat despite most evidence. At a news conference late this week he promised: “We’re going to be a rocket ship as soon as this thing gets solved.” ...

 



 

EDIT   The purpose of this post is not political - rather it is to emphasise that incompetent meddling with a health system can have devastating medical, social, and economic consequences during epidemics or similar national emergencies.

 

 





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tdgeek
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  #2443536 22-Mar-2020 10:08
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freitasm: The first border tightening should have been NZers only. The second should've been no one.

Too late now.

 

That would have worked. The same could though be said for every other country. But no one did. Due to economic decisions and not knowing how bad it will be. Probably also a good dose of how SARS went. Hung around for 8 months, not many infections, not many deaths. Burnt out. I feel we all clung to that scenario.  


bluey
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  #2443542 22-Mar-2020 10:19
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freitasm: The first border tightening should have been NZers only. The second should've been no one.

Too late now.

 

Banning NZers from their own country?  Would that even be possible under our constitution?




cddt
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  #2443548 22-Mar-2020 10:30
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bluey:

 

freitasm: The first border tightening should have been NZers only. The second should've been no one.

Too late now.

 

Banning NZers from their own country?  Would that even be possible under our constitution?

 

 

 

 

We don't have a constitution.


kingdragonfly
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  #2443551 22-Mar-2020 10:33
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Off subject, neither does the UK

Fred99
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  #2443552 22-Mar-2020 10:34
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bluey:

 

freitasm: The first border tightening should have been NZers only. The second should've been no one.

Too late now.

 

Banning NZers from their own country?  Would that even be possible under our constitution?

 

 

I think it would have breached international human rights, you'd have effectively made NZer's overseas stateless citizens at the mercy of what might be able to be provided wherever they are.  If you look at other humanitarian tragedies, many countries aren't very merciful to the plight of others.  

 

They could have been forcibly quarantined on return - but that would have resulted in death camps, as you can't isolate tens of thousands of people from one another, and you can't provide healthcare for any of them from outside without risking transfer of the disease back into the population.  IOW it would not have worked - we would have got it anyway.

 

I don't think we had any choice but to do what we've done.  What we've done is better than what many other countries have - and we need to keep it up. We have no choice.


Dingbatt
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  #2443555 22-Mar-2020 10:36
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bluey:

 

freitasm: The first border tightening should have been NZers only. The second should've been no one.

Too late now.

 

Banning NZers from their own country?  Would that even be possible under our constitution?

 

 

 

 

What constitution? We have a Bill of Rights. We also have the 1986 Constitution Act which draws together various laws and regulations but in reality the government can change almost any part of it by an Act of Parliament.

 

 

 

Edit: Some people seem to be mistaking this thread for the anti-Trump one in the politics forum (IMO).





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


 
 
 

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cddt
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  #2443558 22-Mar-2020 10:39
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Meanwhile, the Chinese Red Cross vice president, Sun Shuopeng, urged tougher measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus.

 

The situation "is similar to what we experienced two months ago in Wuhan, China, the epicenter of Covid-19," he said Thursday at a news conference in Milan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"In the city of Wuhan after one month since the adoption of the lockdown policy, we see a decreasing trend from the peak of the disease," Sun Shuopeng said. "Here in Milan, the hardest-hit area by Covid-19, there isn't a very strict lockdown: public transportation is still working and people are still moving around, you're still having dinners and parties in the hotels and you're not wearing masks."

 

"I don't know what everyone is thinking."

 

He advised Italians to stop all "economic activities and cut the mobility of people," calling on everyone to just stay at home. "We need every citizen to be involved in the fight of Covid-19 and follow this policy."

 

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/europe/italy-military-coronavirus-intl/index.html

 

 

 

Basically the Chinese are saying that the Italian lockdown has been a failure because it isn't strict enough.

Geektastic
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  #2443559 22-Mar-2020 10:39
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Not to state the obvious, but if you ban flights to NZ from landing, it matters not one jot what sort of passport someone has. They can’t get here.





sidders80
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  #2443560 22-Mar-2020 10:41
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Below is a post from someone who just landed in india and shared his experience.

 

 

 

Singapore to Bangalore (20-March-2020, SQ502): My experience with the screening process yesterday. 

 

1. Self declaration forms given while boarding the flight from Singapore.

 

2. Temperature screening after disembarking plus form validation and signing. One form is retained by them.

 

3. At the Immigration: Batch of 20 people for immigration (this is being done to isolate flights from each other) We had an Air India flight which had landed before us, so we had to wait till they were cleared from the Airport. Second form is to be submitted here after all details are scanned and captured by the Immigration Officer.

 

4. Then same batch goes for bag collection after getting first quarantine stamp on hand. Duty free was closed, lots of people dejected 😉

 

5. After luggage collection, wait till bus arrives. BMTC is providing this service, very clean.

 

6. 20-25 people get into one bus max, along with luggage. 

 

Note: If anyone’s family has come for pick up, you can hand over your luggage to them and ask them to follow you to the Hospital.

 

7. Bus takes you to Hospital Akash in Devanahalli for further checks. People with luggage are allowed to leave their luggage in the Ground floor and then proceed to the first floor for next step.

 

8. Fill up form and get checked by Doctor (Q&A). Doctor evaluates through an oral exam and then gives you a rating. Low rating is good rating, I got a C. (Huge area for filling up forms and Doctors sitting separately, kept absolutely clean)

 

Note: If you're termed as a high risk, expect to get quarantined in the same hospital.

 

9. Go to last counter at the Exit, show your rating, get stamped again and then collect your luggage to go home by cab or your own car (lots of parking available). You also have the option of taking the same bus back to the Airport if interested.

 

The whole process took close to 2 hours, so be prepared to wait. There were enough people around to help and explain the process on how and why it was being done.

 

Note: All senior citizens were provided a wheelchair to help them through the long waiting time. I felt this was absolutely brilliant!!

 

And last not the least, found hand sanitizer all over the place and was told that after each flight is cleared, the whole luggage area is sanitized 👍

 

Kudos to the all the staff involved 

 

 

 

Also starting today India has suspended all international flights for a week at this stage





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Fred99
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  #2443566 22-Mar-2020 10:50
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Meanwhile, in America right now:

 


Fred99
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  #2443568 22-Mar-2020 10:55
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America is in deep, deep trouble:

 


Geektastic
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  #2443569 22-Mar-2020 10:58
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cddt: Meanwhile, the Chinese Red Cross vice president, Sun Shuopeng, urged tougher measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus.
The situation "is similar to what we experienced two months ago in Wuhan, China, the epicenter of Covid-19," he said Thursday at a news conference in Milan.


 


"In the city of Wuhan after one month since the adoption of the lockdown policy, we see a decreasing trend from the peak of the disease," Sun Shuopeng said. "Here in Milan, the hardest-hit area by Covid-19, there isn't a very strict lockdown: public transportation is still working and people are still moving around, you're still having dinners and parties in the hotels and you're not wearing masks."
"I don't know what everyone is thinking."
He advised Italians to stop all "economic activities and cut the mobility of people," calling on everyone to just stay at home. "We need every citizen to be involved in the fight of Covid-19 and follow this policy."
 
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/europe/italy-military-coronavirus-intl/index.html
 
Basically the Chinese are saying that the Italian lockdown has been a failure because it isn't strict enough.


I hope we do not end up having the same said of us...





freitasm
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  #2443571 22-Mar-2020 10:59
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tdgeek:

 

freitasm: The first border tightening should have been NZers only. The second should've been no one.

Too late now.

 

That would have worked. The same could though be said for every other country. But no one did. Due to economic decisions and not knowing how bad it will be. Probably also a good dose of how SARS went. Hung around for 8 months, not many infections, not many deaths. Burnt out. I feel we all clung to that scenario.  

 

 

If you read the Wired article posted a few pages back on why Singapore is doing so well, even though it's an international hub - they've learned from SARS and H1N1





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gchiu
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  #2443572 22-Mar-2020 11:01
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I went to Melbourne for a day in Feb and was disappointed when I came back to Wellington.

 

I just waved my passport at staff as I left the plane, and that apparently meant my NZ Passport granted me immunity from further interrogation.

 

No one temperature checked, I wasn't asked any questions, it was hopeless.

 

What this Govt should have done was to isolate everyone who crossed into NZ and kept them in isolation camps for 14 days.  If you're in Auckland, that's Whangaporoa.  If Wellington, it would have been glamping in the Zealandia Sanctuary!   Desperate times calls for desperate measures.  Now we have probable community transmission.

 

The govt keeps talking about flattening the curve.  This is nonsense.  We needed to have stopped the infection as soon as possible through containment and isolation.

 

We now need to start isolating the Wairarapa (and wherever the other case was) and control all traffic between regions.  We need to shut schools down to stop asymptomatic infected kids spreading the disease.  These isolation measures are the only way to stop the curve from becoming its otherwise exponential trajectory.  But this govt is far too concerned about the economic impact instead of saving our lives.


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