Supermarket chain requirements for COVID Vaccinated staff?

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MikeB4
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#2873132 23-Feb-2022 10:26

@openmedia I know exactly how you feel. I have stated on these forums that for me Covid 19 would be a death sentence due to various medical conditions and a heavily compromised immune system. The actions I have taken regarding shopping I detailed earlier, quoted again following have seen me through over two years of Covid 19

"I use Countdowns delivery service and listed as a priority customer being an at risk customer. I have experienced no issues. The delivery staff place the delivery on the floor, knock on the door and step back. They use masks, I or my wife take the bags, empty them and leave them on the floor by the door, step back and say thanks. I wear a mask and gloves when handling the bags and goods. I wipe all packaged products with appropriate wipes. It’s all very painless. I have moved most of my shopping to online"

Add to those Vaccination, common sense, safety, follow the recommendations, wear a mask, sanitise and this should see your kin folk through. However, something that has taken me a while to come to terms with (much appreciation to my son) that allowing Covid to force me into a hermit life is not living, it is a death without finality.

Be vigilant, be strict with visitors but remember to live. Kia kaha, he waka eke noa

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

openmedia

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#2873157 23-Feb-2022 10:56

MikeB4:

@openmedia I know exactly how you feel. I have stated on these forums that for me Covid 19 would be a death sentence due to various medical conditions and a heavily compromised immune system. The actions I have taken regarding shopping I detailed earlier, quoted again following have seen me through over two years of Covid 19

"I use Countdowns delivery service and listed as a priority customer being an at risk customer. I have experienced no issues. The delivery staff place the delivery on the floor, knock on the door and step back. They use masks, I or my wife take the bags, empty them and leave them on the floor by the door, step back and say thanks. I wear a mask and gloves when handling the bags and goods. I wipe all packaged products with appropriate wipes. It’s all very painless. I have moved most of my shopping to online" Add to those Vaccination, common sense, safety, follow the recommendations, wear a mask, sanitise and this should see your kin folk through. However, something that has taken me a while to come to terms with (much appreciation to my son) that allowing Covid to force me into a hermit life is not living, it is a death without finality. Be vigilant, be strict with visitors but remember to live. Kia kaha, he waka eke noa

Thanks for the tips.

I don't expect there to be a magic answer that guarantees no risk. Right now with my Aunt even a strong version of the flu could be fatal.

I'm just surprised to only see Countdown from the major supermarkets take up the rules, especially given how rapidly Omicron can spread.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

MikeB4

MikeB4
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#2873161 23-Feb-2022 10:59

To be honest I feel the service and ethics from Foodstuffs North Island has gone down markedly since Chris Quinn took over as CEO.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

KrazyKid

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#2873165 23-Feb-2022 11:09

I know Foodstuffs SI (and I assume NI) have vaccine mandates on a store by store basis (they are individually owned in a co-op so felt the could not impose co-op wide).

Be worth asking your local New World/ Pak n' Save store for their Mandate status.

For example I know my local Pak n' Save has a Mandated Vaccines & Boosters.
They have let several staff go who would not comply and were not medically exempt.

For them the Mandate includes all contractors are reps who visit or work on site.

Eva888

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#2873189 23-Feb-2022 11:25

As @MikeB4 son mentioned,that a hermit like life is not living.

It's a bit like walking across the road, you cross, but you still look both ways before crossing to mitigate getting hit, you don't stop crossing all roads because there are cars. Covid is similar. You take the best precautions you can to protect yourself while still living life and getting enjoyment.
You can meet friends outside and wear a mask and sit further away. You can ask visitors to wear a mask and sanitize when visiting you. You can wear gloves when unpacking groceries and then sanitise hands.

While at home one could eat leftover rice that sat for a few days and get salmonella or cut a finger with a knife and get sepsis. There will always be risks. I hope that a sensible middle ground can be found that gives quality of life plus safety.

MikeAqua

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#2873209 23-Feb-2022 12:04

Eva888: Let's be clear. I have not suggested people don't get vaccinated and am fully aware that being vaccinated is protective and limits chances of hospitalisation and dying.

My point to the OP was that the vaccinated can PASS ON the virus just as easily as the unvaccinated can [emphais added].

It is an insidious virus that is difficult to escape and the very vulnerable can only protect themselves by mask wearing and distancing from everyone plus being vaccinated to lessen the viral load.

The effectiveness of vaccination isn't binary.

Vaccination reduces the chances of infection at each exposure. I'm not going to quote numbers, but the reduction for two shots plus a booster is substantial.

Your bolded statement is factually and logically incorrect. A vaccinated person is less likely to get the virus, therefore less likely to spread it.

Precautions aren't singular. They are additive. Wearing a mask reduces your risk of exposure, being vaccinated reduces your risk of infection if the mask doesn't prevent exposure. Then there is handwashing, sanitiser and physical distancing. They all attempt to plug vulnerabilities. Swiss cheese model etc.

Mike

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Eva888

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#2873224 23-Feb-2022 12:21

As per the CDC link above

*CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.*

I’m not sure where my statement that anyone vaccinated or not can spread the virus is incorrect.

gzt

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#2873231 23-Feb-2022 12:35

Numerous times you have stated the equivalent of "just as easily". This is wrong. It's very similar to the equivalence logic used by Luxon in his major speech yesterday. The one where he advocated leaders have the courage to admit when they got it wrong. Good place to start Mr Luxon. The rest of the speech was actually pretty good in my estimation whether you agree with it or not. That part was a massive clanger.

gzt

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#2873245 23-Feb-2022 12:48

The weight of evidence along multiple dimensions based on past experience says vaccination reduces transmission even on an individual basis. At this point it's a contrary view to state the opposite.

For the purpose of swapping studies here's an in household study from a reputable source in Denmark covering Omicron ba1 and ba2

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/31/the-new-omicron-subvariant-is-more-contagious-but-vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-to-spread-it-study-finds.html

But really, the weight of all previous evidence is in favor of vaccination also reducing transmission per individual.

mattwnz

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#2873286 23-Feb-2022 14:32

gzt: The weight of evidence along multiple dimensions based on past experience says vaccination reduces transmission even on an individual basis. At this point it's a contrary view to state the opposite.

For the purpose of swapping studies here's an in household study from a reputable source in Denmark covering Omicron ba1 and ba2

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/31/the-new-omicron-subvariant-is-more-contagious-but-vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-to-spread-it-study-finds.html

But really, the weight of all previous evidence is in favor of vaccination also reducing transmission per individual.

IMO this was one of the reasons for the 'mandates'. Someone antivax and not willing to be vaccinated potentially is more likely to catch and spread it than someone who isn't, thus increase the R0 rate. Let alone increasing their chances of needing hospital resources.

mattwnz

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#2873289 23-Feb-2022 14:38

Eva888: As @MikeB4 son mentioned,that a hermit like life is not living.

It's a bit like walking across the road, you cross, but you still look both ways before crossing to mitigate getting hit, you don't stop crossing all roads because there are cars. Covid is similar. You take the best precautions you can to protect yourself while still living life and getting enjoyment.
You can meet friends outside and wear a mask and sit further away. You can ask visitors to wear a mask and sanitize when visiting you. You can wear gloves when unpacking groceries and then sanitise hands.

While at home one could eat leftover rice that sat for a few days and get salmonella or cut a finger with a knife and get sepsis. There will always be risks. I hope that a sensible middle ground can be found that gives quality of life plus safety.

The difference here is that we are also relying on other people to do the right thing, as you don't have much control over what you breath in. For example, a supermarket should be safe for all due to it being an essential service, and everyone should be following he rules and those rules should be enforced, to minimise breathing in other peoples germs. But I would say that 25% of people in my supermarket yesterday were not wearing masks, had them under their chin or under their nose. IMO they should be requiring N95 masks now in supermarkets which is what Prof Baker has recommended. There odds of someone being in the supermarket who is infected is now quite high in many areas.

Unfortionalety there are just too many selfish and dumb people out there, who won't follow the rules, and will still go shopping when infected. Unfortionalety supermarkets don't care. Maybe if there were fined, like they are if they sell alcohol to people underage, they may actually do something so shoppers are more protected.

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openmedia

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#2873306 23-Feb-2022 15:11

Regardless of how you read the data my original query still stands.

I want to only use a supermarket with fully vaccinated staff.

I'd like to use a supermarket that requires a vaccine pass - but that isn't going to happen - so I'll take a vaccine mandate.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

mattwnz

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#2873322 23-Feb-2022 15:47

openmedia:

Regardless of how you read the data my original query still stands.

I want to only use a supermarket with fully vaccinated staff.

I'd like to use a supermarket that requires a vaccine pass - but that isn't going to happen - so I'll take a vaccine mandate.

I would prefer that all staff were all required to wear masks when in public areas. but seen quite a few that don't own wear then as chin nappies. Maybe they have exemptions, but then should they be in public facing areas. But the last small supermarket I went to, some of the the staff members serving at the counters weren't wearing masks, and there weren't any plastic shields on the counters at all. It was like normal but it felt really exposed after all the other supermarkets I have been to having plastic shielding in place for several years.
Young people seem to wear them as chin nappies out of some sort of 'it's not cool to wear a mask', or they don't care or understand. But they look even more stupid. At least when you wear a mask you are essentially anonymous.

ezbee

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#2873323 23-Feb-2022 15:48

Eva888: As per the CDC link above

*CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.*

I’m not sure where my statement that anyone vaccinated or not can spread the virus is incorrect.

Um.... Well... Your implication seems to be a binary that imperfect measures are no use.

'Can' is not the same as 'Will'

You 'can' get run down at a pedestrian crossing is not the same as you 'will' get run down at pedestrian crossing.

Wearing a seat belt 'can' kill you is not anything like wearing a seatbelt 'will' kill you.

Viruses spread by chains of infection, break a chain you break the future paths that might have occurred.

You lower the speed of spread, and things are more manageable.

networkn

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#2873330 23-Feb-2022 15:59

MikeB4:

To be honest I feel the service and ethics from Foodstuffs North Island has gone down markedly since Chris Quinn took over as CEO.

That's interesting, I know at least 4 supermarket workers personally who feel the total opposite. They are more valued, paid better, and better protected than they were before.

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