2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2471186 25-Apr-2020 16:26

The interesting thing with the Trumpies will be the cognitive-dissonance effect where vast numbers of them now need to convince themselves that he was joking because the alternative, having to admit their Dear Leader is nuts, is just too unthinkable....

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#2471201 25-Apr-2020 16:57

neb: The interesting thing with the Trumpies will be the cognitive-dissonance effect where vast numbers of them now need to convince themselves that he was joking because the alternative, having to admit their Dear Leader is nuts, is just too unthinkable....

This is similar to religious people who feel they have to defend absolutely everything in (for example) the bible, including the patently silly parts, because to realize that these bits are just made up means that the parts they do believe may be called into question.

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#2471203 25-Apr-2020 17:00

dejadeadnz

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#2471208 25-Apr-2020 17:08

MikeB4:

I am a strong supporter of ANZAC day but this was bloody stupid. As the President of one of the larger RSA's he should be setting an example. I feel he should be apologising to all the folk who followed the rules and remembered from their homes and then he should resign.

He deserves far more than the above.

I've reported Gibson to the Police via the COVID 105 support page. He should be prosecuted and jailed. I am also looking at whether the Auckland RSA qualifies as a Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking (PCBU) under the Health and Safety at Work Act. If it's a PCBU, it is responsible for ensuring that in organising any events, it does so in a manner that is without risk to the health and safety of others, so far as it is reasonably practicable. Failure to do so opens them up to an investigation and prosecution by WorkSafe NZ. WSNZ is admittedly a pretty spineless agency, so I don't expect them to do anything.

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#2471210 25-Apr-2020 17:17

dejadeadnz:

MikeB4:

I am a strong supporter of ANZAC day but this was bloody stupid. As the President of one of the larger RSA's he should be setting an example. I feel he should be apologising to all the folk who followed the rules and remembered from their homes and then he should resign.

He deserves far more than the above.

I've reported Gibson to the Police via the COVID 105 support page. He should be prosecuted and jailed. I am also looking at whether the Auckland RSA qualifies as a Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking (PCBU) under the Health and Safety at Work Act. If it's a PCBU, it is responsible for ensuring that in organising any events, it does so in a manner that is without risk to the health and safety of others, so far as it is reasonably practicable. Failure to do so opens them up to an investigation and prosecution by WorkSafe NZ. WSNZ is admittedly a pretty spineless agency, so I don't expect them to do anything.

Thank you very much.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2471224 25-Apr-2020 17:32

And I am just hoping that in two weeks time we don't hear that there's anyone in an ICU as a result of his stunt and the likes of the choir stunt in NP. My wife got called a sour puss for calling those people out on her own Facebook page by some of her friends -- so you can imagine the hiding that anyone is in for if they do it on the RSA's wall. She told me what ER/ICU doctors have to do in intubating people and it's not pretty and has a definite element of risk. It's absolutely unfair that anyone should be put at risk for certain people's traditions and ego.

The deafening silence by the media in terms of holding him to account is pathetic.

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Rikkitic

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#2471232 25-Apr-2020 17:44

There seems to be something sacrosanct about ANZAC and anyone who dares to impugn it in any way, real or imagined, is likely to be the subject of sustained and intense vituperation.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2471234 25-Apr-2020 17:49

Rikkitic:

There seems to be something sacrosanct about ANZAC and anyone who dares to impugn it in any way, real or imagined, is likely to be the subject of sustained and intense vituperation.

There is a time and place. Today is not the time and this thread is not the place.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2471268 25-Apr-2020 19:51

Ok, we are all indignant with this act. Let's now go back to the topic.

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#2471282 25-Apr-2020 20:02

BBC News - Coronavirus: Dancer uses bin night to perform for neighbours [video: 3 mins]

today

Albert Garcia is a graduate professional dancer living in a small flat in Valencia, in Spain.

The country has been under strict lockdown since March 16 to try to stop the spread of coronavirus, which has killed at least 22,000 people there, according to government figures.

Due to the restrictions, Albert has not been able to dance freely, but that changed the moment he embraced taking the rubbish out as an act of freedom - and a gift to his new neighbours. ...

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#2471284 25-Apr-2020 20:15

I was asked weeks before if there is an explaination for the relatively small number of severe cases in Germany.

According to the expert virulogist Christian Drosten, there are increasing signs of background immunity in Germany. Mild or asymptomatic corona courses could be related to previous infections.

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#2471324 25-Apr-2020 22:01

Tinkerisk:

I was asked weeks before if there is an explaination for the relatively small number of severe cases in Germany.

According to the expert virulogist Christian Drosten, there are increasing signs of background immunity in Germany. Mild or asymptomatic corona courses could be related to previous infections.

Yep. But previous infections with what?

I'm pretty confident (as a non-expert) that there's a correlation between the high IgG positive results in general community population survey indicating some level of exposure and maybe immunity in far more people than have been known to have been infected, the paradox that in communities like NZ and other countries where known (by PCR / RNA tests) are able to be traced and that *if* there were many undiagnosed cases then *if* those undiagnosed cases were infectious then the epidemiology must show random and untraceable new cases popping up all over the place - but it is simply not happening. Throw into the mix that in general, the younger you are the less severely you're affected but also that the younger you are if you are confirmed infected, then the lower the IgG titre (to the point that in some younger patients antibody levels are almost undetectable), and something very strange is going on.

It's incredibly important that an answer is found.

Edit: Just to say the NZ testing rate per 100,000 population is now quite high, relative to confirmed cases very high, and NZ CFR is measured proportionately much higher than most countries because we are counting all C-19 PCR confirmed positive deaths as C-19 deaths - and I believe also included (one or two?) PCR negatives that were clinically diagnosed.
Compare UK for example, only "hospital" PCR confirmed deaths are included. God knows how many additional deaths there are there in rest homes or at home - they aren't counting and don't seem to want to know.

Tinkerisk

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#2471344 26-Apr-2020 01:12

Fred99:

Tinkerisk:

I was asked weeks before if there is an explaination for the relatively small number of severe cases in Germany.

According to the expert virulogist Christian Drosten, there are increasing signs of background immunity in Germany. Mild or asymptomatic corona courses could be related to previous infections.

Yep. But previous infections with what?

"Drosten's team was involved in the study of the T-helper cells, said the virologist. When examining defense cells in pre-pandemic samples, the researchers had seen that 34 percent of the patients had reactive T cells that recognized certain parts of the new corona virus, so to speak.

So-called reactivity can be expected when the disease is behind - however, these patients have had no contact with Sars-CoV-2. The fact that there were still reactive T cells could be due to infections with human cold coronaviruses. The novel corona virus belongs to a diverse family of corona viruses. Some trigger cold symptoms.

Drosten spoke of the first such observation worldwide, but also warned against over-interpreting the results. Important for him: one should never conclude that a third of the population is immune.

Further explanations for mild or asymptomatic courses are also that the affected people got fewer viruses in the beginning or are in better shape overall.

Drosten had already talked about possible immunity from cold coronaviruses last week. At that time, he referred to a preprint study from China.

The researchers observe the infected people in households. The so-called "tag rate", the number of people who contracted infection, was very low. "That is 12, 13 percent," said the scientist. "How can it be that so many who were in the house do not become infected? Does something like background immunity play a role in this?"

Drosten also warned against loosening measures, even if there is this background immunity: "In the current phase it is the case that - even if you include the (background immunity) in models - the medical system and the intensive care unit capacity would still be overloaded and that's why it is right to have taken these measures at the moment."

[Background reference of Christian Drosten] https://www.bihealth.org/en/research/research-groups/christian-drosten/

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#2471483 26-Apr-2020 11:39

Short one minute public service announcement. Good for pre-adults.

Don't treat coronavirus by injecting disinfectant - it could kill you!

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DS248

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#2471550 26-Apr-2020 12:37

For what it is worth

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/25/us/who-immunity-antibodies-covid-19/index.html

""There is no evidence yet that people who have had Covid-19 will not get a second infection," WHO said in a scientific brief published Friday."

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