2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2482925 13-May-2020 17:30

Handle9:
mattwnz:

Funerals can now be up to 50 people, but it Funeral directors have to register and sign a declaration that certain health measures are met. This is good IMO, because it means that someone is responsible if any issues occur. Includes physical distancing,hand hygiene and no food or drink afterwards. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/416530/watch-up-to-50-people-will-be-allowed-at-funerals-and-tangihanga

"Someone" was always responsible for health and safety - the PCBU operating the funeral home or church.

Oh thank goodness at least one other person appears to get it. 90% of the country seems to think that the Health and Safety at Work Act has been suspended.

Handle9

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#2482930 13-May-2020 17:32

dejadeadnz:

Handle9:

"Someone" was always responsible for health and safety - the PCBU operating the funeral home or church.

Oh thank goodness at least one other person appears to get it. 90% of the country seems to think that the Health and Safety at Work Act has been suspended.

It's PC gone mad / nanny state / insert stupid statement here.

mattwnz

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#2482950 13-May-2020 17:56

Handle9:
mattwnz:

Funerals can now be up to 50 people, but it Funeral directors have to register and sign a declaration that certain health measures are met. This is good IMO, because it means that someone is responsible if any issues occur. Includes physical distancing,hand hygiene and no food or drink afterwards. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/416530/watch-up-to-50-people-will-be-allowed-at-funerals-and-tangihanga

"Someone" was always responsible for health and safety - the PCBU operating the funeral home or church.

But not all parts of a funeral may be covered by them. What about private funerals events and after funeral events and wakes, as neither funeral homes or churches are always involved with all parts of those?. eg Scattering of the ashes, a private wake etc. Under the 10 people limit, I understand people could still have had private event afterwards, such as in a home. But under this new one people can't have an event afterwards involving food and drink if involves between 10-50 people.

I agree that health and safety laws are already in place , but are all companies doing things correctly under these new conditions, and do all of them know what to do, if the rules they are to follow are not specific? I saw at a supermarket tonight which has perspex screens up at the checkout, but a customer and the checkout operator were talking to each other to the side of this, and within one meter face to face.

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#2482957 13-May-2020 18:02

mattwnz:

Handle9:

"Someone" was always responsible for health and safety - the PCBU operating the funeral home or church.

But not all parts of a funeral may be covered by them. What about private funerals events and after funeral events and wakes, as neither funeral homes or churches are always involved with all parts of those?. eg Scattering of the ashes, a private wake etc. Under the 10 people limit, I understand people could still have had private event afterwards, such as in a home. But under this new one people can't have an event afterwards involving food and drink if involves between 10-50 people.

What about them? How is a funeral director responsible for whatever goes on once people leave their premises?

mattwnz

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#2482967 13-May-2020 18:06

Handle9:

What about them? How is a funeral director responsible for whatever goes on once people leave their premises?

Yes, but wasn't that the whole point of the 10 person limit the government originally setup, to prevent the risk of people doing that?

Otherwise whats going to stop those 50 people all then going to someones house after a service, to consume food and drink, or an independent hall? Normally the funeral director or person doing the service will tell the congregation what is occurring after the service and where, even if it is to inform them of an event at someone house or hall which they are not involved with directly. Now they will have to say that there is no after event consisting of food and drink. . Otherwise what has really changed from what the normal health and safety law already covers?

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#2482969 13-May-2020 18:09

mattwnz:

Handle9:

What about them? How is a funeral director responsible for whatever goes on once people leave their premises?

Yes, but wasn't that the whole point of the 10 person limit the government originally setup?

Otherwise whats going to stop those 50 people all then going to someones house after a service, to consume food and drink? Normally the funeral director or person doing the service will tell the congregation what is occurring after the service and where, even if it is a private even. Now they will have to say that there is no after event consisting of food and drink.

You can only have private gatherings of 10 people.

If someone at the funeral home calls out "we're all off to the pub now" how is the funeral director responsible? They have no control over it.

mattwnz

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#2483009 13-May-2020 18:58

Handle9:

You can only have private gatherings of 10 people.

If someone at the funeral home calls out "we're all off to the pub now" how is the funeral director responsible? They have no control over it.

Yes that is really the problem, which IMO is one reason why the MOH wasn't keen on funerals being over 10, to prevent the risk of that knock on effect occurring, where people may go off to a private wake.

But then we have this sort of thing occurring, and isn't Matamata an area where there was a large cluster?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121496813/coronavirus-biker-gang-flouts-mass-gathering-rules-at-matamata-funeral

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Oblivian

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#2483034 13-May-2020 19:14

Bill passed the 3rd reading and put through

Internet is freaking out about it. Internet doesn't realise it's narrower/refining what the MoH could order of you (and even demolish your building!) under SoE conditions. Without the need for SoE (and adding additional people like MBIE/Armourguard to do checks)

Thankfully the latest media release addresses some of these in more detail rather than the ZOMG RUSHED! headlines prior

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12331547

tdgeek

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#2483043 13-May-2020 19:26

IMO this is where its at, no more, no less

Education Minister Chris Hipkins said when Brownlee brought in legislation that curtailed civil liberties after the Canterbury Earthquakes, he felt uncomfortable voting for it but "it was the right thing to do".

It's no conspiracy, believe it or not, some people want to help NZ

Oblivian

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#2483044 13-May-2020 19:30

I watched it live when that come out. I was glad it did, I was sitting back going.. "hang on. You did that for the EQs!!"

Then he was replied to

freitasm

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#2483077 13-May-2020 20:10

Press release:

The law establishing a legal framework for the response to Covid-19 has passed its final reading and will become law in time for the move to Alert Level 2 tonight.

This is a bespoke Act designed specifically to stop the spread of COVID-19.

“The COVID-19 Public Health Response Act will ensure controls on gatherings of people and physical distancing are still enforceable while narrowing the Police powers from those that applied under Level 3 and Level 4,” Attorney-General David Parker said.

Enforceability to date has relied on the Epidemic Notice, the Health Act and the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act.

“There will be fewer restrictions under Alert Level 2 and we are now in a position to restore many civil liberties and economic freedoms that have been curbed in recent months.

“However, those remaining restrictions still need to be enforceable.

Despite claims by some critics, the powers of the Police will be narrower from midnight tonight than they have been for the past seven weeks,” David Parker said.

“Police had greater powers under the Health Act and the State of National Emergency. Under this Act Police will only be able to enter private homes to break up gatherings that violate the rules on the numbers of people assembling, whereas under the previous powers they could do so for a number of reasons. At Alert Level 2 we still need to be careful to limit infection to enable effective track and tracing if there is an outbreak we need to get under control.”

Another change will allow Police to issue infringement notices rather than only being able to prosecute persons that persistently flout the rules. Police will be able to exercise discretion as they already do every day.

This Act provides greater Parliamentary and democratic oversight, placing the responsibility to issue orders in the hands of a democratically elected Minister and requiring Police to report on use of their powers granted in this Act. It increases accountability by putting the Minister of Health in the decision-making position with advice from health officials and others, and will require economic and social factors to also be taken into account.

The Act will be automatically repealed unless continued by motion of this House every 90 days, or another period agreed by the House. The law will not stay on the statute books beyond the period needed to respond to Covid-19.

It is also important to point out that it creates the legal framework for future orders, not the orders themselves.

“The efforts of all New Zealanders have so far curbed the spread of the virus and the potential devastation it causes. There is no vaccine and no cure.

“It remains a precarious journey we are on, but together we have broken the chain of community transmission and reduced daily cases dramatically. This law will allow us to continue on that journey,” David Parker said.

“The House has made some important changes to the original Bill and I thanks Members including Opposition members for their input. I also thanks those legal experts we consulted as we prepared this law.”

tdgeek

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#2483080 13-May-2020 20:17

Good news. Extraordinary measures for extraordinary times. Then, it will be auto-repealed when this crisis is over.

No conspiracy.

Oblivian

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#2483132 13-May-2020 20:45

Feel free to shoot down any non believers with a link to the health act

CDEM SoE ended at 12 today.

Under that by means of health act

A constable acting under subsection (1) may at any time do any or all of the following things:
(a)enter into or on any land, building, aircraft, ship, or vehicle:
(b)inspect any land, building, aircraft, ship, or vehicle, and any thing in or on it:
(c)whether for the purposes of paragraph (a) or (b) (or both) or in the exercise of a power conferred by subsection (1),—
(i)stop a ship or vehicle, or a taxiing aircraft; or
(ii)prevent a stationary aircraft, ship, or vehicle from moving; or
(iii)prevent an aircraft or ship from departing.

A person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months, a fine not exceeding $4,000, or both who in any way (directly or indirectly, by act or default)—
(a)threatens, assaults, or intentionally obstructs or hinders a medical officer of health or any person authorised by a medical officer of health in the exercise or performance of powers or functions under section 70 or 71; or
(b)threatens, assaults, or intentionally obstructs or hinders a constable acting under section 71A; or

And the Covid bill (new individual orders like stay 2m appart and no gatherings)

An enforcement officer may enter, without a warrant, any land, building, craft, vehicle, place, or thing if they have reasonable grounds to believe that a person is failing to comply with any aspect of a section 11 order.

A person commits an offence if the person intentionally fails to comply with a section 11 order.
(2) A person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable on conviction to—
(a) imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months; or
(b) a fine not exceeding $4,000.
(3) A person commits an infringement offence if the person does anything specified as an infringement offence in a section 11 order.
(4) A person who commits an infringement offence is liable to—
(a) an infringement fee of $300; or
(b) a fine imposed by a court not exceeding $1,000.

New instant fine like Aus has, and new explicit notes bypassing waiting around for a warrant (much like Search and Surveillance act allows) since the above no longer covers it as broadly on the lapse of a SoE

mattwnz

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#2483147 13-May-2020 20:57

tdgeek:

Good news. Extraordinary measures for extraordinary times. Then, it will be auto-repealed when this crisis is over.

No conspiracy.

Except when that will be? When does it cease being a crisis. Elimination and out of all levels? Or if we fail at elimination, until / if a vaccine comes along, because the world has covid until at least then?

Fred99

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#2483181 13-May-2020 21:24

mattwnz:

Except when that will be? When does it cease being a crisis. Elimination and out of all levels? Or if we fail at elimination, until / if a vaccine comes along, because the world has covid until at least then?

A two-year limit on the law was switched to three months.

We're not going to have a vaccine in 3 months, and full elimination won't be possible until we do.

So some form of "rinse and repeat" seems likely IMO.

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