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3390 posts

Uber Geek


# 179179 30-Aug-2015 10:51
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Anyone know of one in NZ outside Natural Value which is expensive and hard to get hold of?

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117 posts

Master Geek


  # 1376870 31-Aug-2015 09:22
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u wot m8?

I think you need to clarify what your question, but I can assure you that Coconut milk and Guar gum are both BPA free on account of their not being made of plastic.

JWR

785 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1376882 31-Aug-2015 09:44

Incindre: u wot m8?

I think you need to clarify what your question, but I can assure you that Coconut milk and Guar gum are both BPA free on account of their not being made of plastic.


But, it is sold in cans lined with plastic containing BPA.

 
 
 
 




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Uber Geek


  # 1376891 31-Aug-2015 09:56
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rofl. really i need to explain that.

the cans are lined with BPA and Im allergic to Guar Gum which they use to keep the milk solid seperating from the water. Really good coconut milk is just coconut milk. But like all things in NZ its very hard to find.



3390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1376917 31-Aug-2015 10:21
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not what im looking for clearly.

canned or packaged coconut milk, not the water.

3344 posts

Uber Geek

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Vocus

  # 1376945 31-Aug-2015 10:50
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Ayam has no guar gum.  Also read this on BPA lining, may be informative.  http://www.ayam.com/about-us/frequently-ask-questions.html

9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1376946 31-Aug-2015 10:51
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Tetra packs of coconut milk (and other UHT/ aseptic packaged product in tetra packs) will be BPA-free.
There are brands like "Dole" and "Kara" commonly available in most supermarkets.
As for guar gum, then chances are if it doesn't contain guar, then it's probably thickened /stabilised with something else -xanthan gum, cellulose ethers (ie CMC), carrageenan etc.  It probably has some emulsifier added too.  Read the contents panel, and if stated as something like "Stabiliser E412", then use google to identify.  (Guar is E412). 

 
 
 
 


JWR

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Ultimate Geek




3390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1376953 31-Aug-2015 11:02
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nah fred you dont need to thicken it if you shake it before use. to be honest even with guar gum a lot of them seperate. i lot of people are intolerant to guar gum, its not good stuff. BPA worries me less. but I have compromised digestion so need it for an elemental diet. the GG gives me the most weird stinging throat.



3390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1376954 31-Aug-2015 11:05
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JWR:
I might check this out next time at the supermarket.

http://shop.countdown.co.nz/Shop/ProductDetails?Stockcode=308611&name=ayam-coconut-milk-powder&search=cocount%20milk%20powder


the canned coconut milk from Ayam is one example of just coconut and water. might check that out.

the dried stuff has a thickener in it, either corn or rice, if you are not intolerant to grains its a non issue id think.

re BPA in Ayam

http://www.fittoblog.org/2013/10/reply-from-ayams-about-bpa-levels.html

JWR

785 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1376959 31-Aug-2015 11:12

ubergeeknz: Ayam has no guar gum.  Also read this on BPA lining, may be informative.  http://www.ayam.com/about-us/frequently-ask-questions.html



The FAQ was interesting..

"...At this stage, we envisage the move to BPA-NI cans to occur October 2015 however, we will ensure to communicate the final launch date when confirmed."

I don't know how much of a worry BPA is in cans. It seems like coconut milk/cream and acidic food (like Tomatoes) are the worst for leeching it out of the plastic liner.

But, why not avoid it if possible?

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Uber Geek

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Vocus

  # 1376962 31-Aug-2015 11:19
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JWR:
ubergeeknz: Ayam has no guar gum.  Also read this on BPA lining, may be informative.   http://www.ayam.com/about-us/frequently-ask-questions.html


The FAQ was interesting..

"...At this stage, we envisage the move to BPA-NI cans to occur October 2015 however, we will ensure to communicate the final launch date when confirmed."

I don't know how much of a worry BPA is in cans. It seems like coconut milk/cream and acidic food (like Tomatoes) are the worst for leeching it out of the plastic liner.

But, why not avoid it if possible?


The FAQ says two things. First that the level of BPA leached into the product was undetectable, second there is no proven safe alternative tin liner.

"Our aim is to offer all Ayam Brand products in BPA-NI cans, however, as consumer safety is our utmost priority, we will only be able to do so when the new linings have been thoroughly tested and proven to be safe."



3390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1376974 31-Aug-2015 11:31
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there are BPA free coconut milk containers. but hard to track down in US. Ill try to dig up some from the paleo threads.

BPA is not much of a worry imo in the AYAM. Its reasonably high in coconut milk, I think 82%, some brands are as low as 50% and thats when you really need guar gum lol.

Natural Value is guar gum and BPA free in a can. but its not cheap if you can actually find it in NZ, like $6 a can (but 400ml).

http://www.naturalvalue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/NaturalValue-CoconutMilk.pdf

9011 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1377022 31-Aug-2015 12:42
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ubergeeknz: 

The FAQ says two things. First that the level of BPA leached into the product was undetectable, second there is no proven safe alternative tin liner.


It doesn't quite say that...

It said that their test methodology had a detection limit of 0.5 mg/kg, (vs EU directive limit of 0.6mg/kg) and that none was detected.  There's a difference between "undetectable" and "none detected".  In that case the threshold for detection is rather close to the limit a bit too close for comfort perhaps.

I wouldn't want to criticise the brand too harshly - it's remarkable that they say anything at all, let alone give the consumer much more information than anybody else usually does.

A second part to that is that through 2014/2105 TDI (total daily intake) guidelines for BPA was revised downward from 50ug/kg body weight/day to 4ug by EFSA, with regulation of that left to individual EU states.  Ayam's FAQ does not refer to this revision - only a 2011 review of the 2004 directive.
Now to do some simple maths:

Assume that a brand of coconut milk does contain 0.5mg/kg BPA = 500ug.
500ug / 70kg body mass = 7.14ug/kg body weight/day if 1kg was consumed.
4 / 7.14 = 560g of that canned coconut milk per day would be the limit to stay under new EFSA guidelines, assuming that canned coconut milk was the only dietary source of BPA (very unlikely).

Half a kilo or so of coconut milk per day seems like quite a lot.  However it might not be easy to keep within that 4ug/kg body weight/day guideline if canned foods (with BPA lining) was a large component of the diet - a couple of cans per day perhaps.  (In hindsight, perhaps the old guideline was rather high?)

One thing is apparent from the maths, accepted "safe limits" are kind of close to what are probably actual consumption levels.  Results with coincidences like that do raise my curiosity level. 

From my experience with people with (IMO) paranoic food aversions, their personal threshold seems to be none at all.  I'm not accusing the OP of this BTW.  If someone felt that way about BPA, then Ayam canned coconut milk clearly won't "cut the mustard".

Not just safety of (alternative) tin liners, a quick google brings up this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854718/  
Prior to that quick google, if you'd asked me if the ubiquitous PET bottle was safe, I'd have said almost certainly. I might still say "probably", but like everybody else, it's just a guess.






3390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1377031 31-Aug-2015 12:56
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paranoid food aversions haha, thats a new one. reminds me of that muppet mark on Peep Show, when he goes on about people being allergic to gluten and peanuts.

no im not paranoid about BPA, ive consumed enough hot water from plastic bottles for it not to worry me too much. but guar gum is something i definitely cant handle.

i have serious gut dysfunction, im more concerned with things that cause immediate reactions than the unknown. and i put BPA into the unknown category. although as an ecology hiker i use non BPA water canisters simply because plastic tastes like crap after a while.

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