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483 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#272199 14-Jun-2020 16:17
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With this being the first weekend of Level 1, I am a little concerned at our preparedness for Contact Tracing.


We currently have capacity to deal with 250 new arrivals daily.  While these are all Kiwis (or equivalent), the fact is that we still have people coming into the country.  Although all these new arrivals go into managed quarantine or isolation, the fact is that many of them are permitted to use facilities and/or exercise space that is shared with NZ residents.  I would have thought that this brings real risk of a COVID19 infections from imported sources.  This in turn requires a that we have an ability to contact trace at speed when an infection is detected.


Under level 1, this is not the case.  As outlined here https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121756580/coronavirus-pm-clears-up-contact-tracing-confusion-for-businesses-in-level-1 businesses are no longer required to keep a register so the only contact tracing tool we have is individual records of where we have been.  While the NZ COVID tracer app helps, there is no ability to find out who else was at an event or venue attended by an infected person.


I have been out and about this weekend.  The only business visited that had the NZ COVID Tracer QR code was Briscoes.  No QR code available at any pub, restaurant, supermarket, chemist or market.  So if I visit anywhere where someone known to be infected has been, how will I ever be notified?  If I test positive, for any reason, Contact Tracing starts purely with my memory - good luck with that.  Hopefully I am woefully misinformed on this - and if so I would appreciate an update.





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  #2504561 14-Jun-2020 17:15
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You aren't wrong, and it just needs one hole, and the virus can sneak back in. I understand the WHO have warned countries like NZ to make sure contact tracing is all up to scratch.  I would have thought that businesses should be encouraged to keep QR codes up so people can keep records. However I installed it on my parents phone, and they tried scanning it in various locations, but it couldn't recognize the code. Do they need mobile data on their device, because they don't use mobile date? One was installed on an ipod, which doesn't have mobile data,


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  #2504567 14-Jun-2020 17:52
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mattwnz:

 

You aren't wrong, and it just needs one hole, and the virus can sneak back in. I understand the WHO have warned countries like NZ to make sure contact tracing is all up to scratch.  I would have thought that businesses should be encouraged to keep QR codes up so people can keep records. However I installed it on my parents phone, and they tried scanning it in various locations, but it couldn't recognize the code. Do they need mobile data on their device, because they don't use mobile date? One was installed on an ipod, which doesn't have mobile data,

 

 

Shouldn't need mobile data, but the QR code must contain specific data in a specific format. I've heard tales that some COVID tracking competitor apps are using the same format and appearance as the official posters, so you may think that you can scan the barcode with the official app but they are incompatible. You have to check the poster carefully to ensure that it's actually a government app barcode.


 
 
 
 


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  #2504572 14-Jun-2020 18:15
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The Rippl app can process both Rippl and MoH QR codes. The MoH site talks about 3rd party integration with other apps. Maybe they should also accept other codes.

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Ultimate Geek

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  #2504574 14-Jun-2020 18:22
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There's Contact Tracing? (Now)

 

Could have fooled me from what I have seen.

 

(I know where I have been...no problem, I don't have a "life")


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  #2504651 14-Jun-2020 20:34
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I spent the weekend at the Sofitel in Wellington and they now require the guests to give their residential address if that is different from their postal address.

 

 

 

I saw very few QR codes in the few shops we went into whilst in Wellington and nobody enforced any kind of scanning etc.






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  #2504750 15-Jun-2020 09:24
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Bung: The Rippl app can process both Rippl and MoH QR codes. The MoH site talks about 3rd party integration with other apps. Maybe they should also accept other codes.

 

I don't see why they should. The data format for the QR code is clearly defined, compliant with the intent of the scheme, and freely available. Additionally, the MoH model of storing data locally on your device is much better for privacy than the centralised model that many other apps are using in order to build up a massive marketing database under the guise of public health.


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  #2504758 15-Jun-2020 09:51
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Kyanar:

Bung: The Rippl app can process both Rippl and MoH QR codes. The MoH site talks about 3rd party integration with other apps. Maybe they should also accept other codes.


I don't see why they should. The data format for the QR code is clearly defined, compliant with the intent of the scheme, and freely available. Additionally, the MoH model of storing data locally on your device is much better for privacy than the centralised model that many other apps are using in order to build up a massive marketing database under the guise of public health.



If it was the MoH app scanning the code it would be stored locally on your device (same as Rippl). I don't know how many codes are out there having only come across MoH and Rippl. I haven't come across any location with more than one QR displayed so I use the app that reads both types. I don't see why any business should need more than 1 QR code to identify location. As an analogy all couriers read the same street address.

 
 
 
 


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  #2504759 15-Jun-2020 09:54
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Bung:

If it was the MoH app scanning the code it would be stored locally on your device (same as Rippl). I don't know how many codes are out there having only come across MoH and Rippl. I haven't come across any location with more than one QR displayed so I use the app that reads both types. I don't see why any business should need more than 1 QR code to identify location. As an analogy all couriers read the same street address.

 

Great analogy. So all other apps should indeed do away with their incompatible formats and just use the one specification made freely available by the MoH, like all couriers do with the addressing standard controlled by the postal service.




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  #2504802 15-Jun-2020 10:02
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Technology issues aside, my concern is that we no longer have effective Contract Tracing capability.  We will get a new case eventually and will not be able to combat it with effective contact tracing, for reasons I outlined in my original post.  The best we can do is publish venues that the infected person visited in the hope that those who were there at or near the time can come forward.





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  #2504806 15-Jun-2020 10:11
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FYI (As pointed out in the Covid tracing app thread.. yes, these are almost crossing into each other)

 

Rippl doesn't appear that they will be getting access to the MoH data API for alerts like the latest update allows for. Purely for a logging feature or rely on them being handed a warning to put an alert out. Nor will the Government app scan anything other than their own ones.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12334986 - snippeted from paywall by other user

 

We've got halfway there, following an update released overnight, Rippl's app can now be used to scan posters created for the NZ Covid Tracer app.

 

And that's as far as we'll go, on the scanning front. A spokesman for the Ministry of Health says there are no plans for its NZ Covid Tracer app to get the ability to scan posters created for other apps. There will be no two-way street.


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