Scotland sets 2032 ban for the sale of new diesel and petrol cars: Should NZ do the same?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Scotland sets 2032 ban for the sale of new diesel and petrol cars: Should NZ do the same?

frednz

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#222977 6-Sep-2017 12:28

This article reports that:

“Our aim is for new petrol and diesel cars and vans to be phased out in Scotland by 2032 – the end of the period covered by our new climate change plan and eight years ahead of the target set by the UK government,” Sturgeon said on Tuesday.

So, is there any reason why NZ shouldn't do the same?

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#1859618 6-Sep-2017 12:37

I agree.

But you can't 100% phase them out, as what about enthusiasts, classics, vintages? Motor Racing. But selling only EV after 2032 is a good idea. Humans need a line in the sand. In 15 years EV's should be excellent as will supporting infrastructure and gains in the technology.

reven

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#1859619 6-Sep-2017 12:38

surely we will have decent self driving cars by then.... but yeah, agreed get rid of petrol cars. heck get rid of them all. or make them very expensive to run (unless with special license, farming etc).

timmmay

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#1859621 6-Sep-2017 12:39

Scotland is 1/3 the area of New Zealand, with a 50% higher population. It may start to become feasible to provide charging stations. New Zealand being larger, with a smaller population, it doesn't seem feasible.

One example - consider farmers on large farms, that spend a day or two away from base. Are you going to put charging stations around a farm at great expense? I expect there would be many exceptions.

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#1859633 6-Sep-2017 12:43

No reason we can't ban the sale of new petrol & diesel cars/vans.. tomorrow.

Since most vehicles registered here are Jap imports, the year Japan bans the sale of petrol/diesel vehicles will have a far greater effect.

Or do you mean ban the sale of all imported petrol and diesel vehicles?

tdgeek

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#1859635 6-Sep-2017 12:45

timmmay:

Scotland is 1/3 the area of New Zealand, with a 50% higher population. It may start to become feasible to provide charging stations. New Zealand being larger, with a smaller population, it doesn't seem feasible.

One example - consider farmers on large farms, that spend a day or two away from base. Are you going to put charging stations around a farm at great expense? I expect there would be many exceptions.

Add farms to my list, yes there will be other valid exemptions, just focus on cars and light vehicles. Those that tow as well is an exemption

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#1859637 6-Sep-2017 12:47

tdgeek:

Add farms to my list, yes there will be other valid exemptions, just focus on cars and light vehicles. Those that tow as well is an exemption

Ah... so only ban light, non-towing capable, non farm petrol and diesel vehicles?
That suits me fine. The market for my F-350 Super Duties will explode!

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frednz

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#1859638 6-Sep-2017 12:53

Sidestep:

No reason we can't ban the sale of new petrol & diesel cars/vans.. tomorrow.

Since most vehicles registered here are Jap imports, the year Japan bans the sale of petrol/diesel vehicles will have a far greater effect.

Or do you mean ban the sale of all imported petrol and diesel vehicles?

Well it would be great if NZ could ban the sale of all imported petrol and diesel vehicles by 2032, but I think we should at least ban the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles by then.

Now that several countries have set a date for doing this, I think a target date should be an urgent and official part of NZ's climate change policy. Otherwise there will be people asking why NZ can't at least set a target date in line with what several other countries have already done.

In other words, is NZ just too casual in its approach to promoting the uptake of electric vehicles?

tdgeek

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#1859639 6-Sep-2017 12:54

Sidestep:

tdgeek:

Add farms to my list, yes there will be other valid exemptions, just focus on cars and light vehicles. Those that tow as well is an exemption

Ah. so only ban light, non-towing capable, non farm petrol and diesel vehicles?
That suits me fine. The market for my F-350 Super Duties will explode!

:-)

aka almost all of the cars and light vehicles we see on the roads every day. Anything that can work with EV should go, but, many cant, but volume wise are a minority

kryptonjohn

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#1859657 6-Sep-2017 13:04

Avoid the ban-hammer knee-jerk.

If EV are as wonderful as I expect them to be in 2032 nobody in their right mind would import an ICE vehicle for general use. The ban would be unnecessary and there are non general uses that will still require ICE as already discussed.

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#1859660 6-Sep-2017 13:08

frednz:

In other words, is NZ just too casual in its approach to promoting the uptake of electric vehicles?

I think this is the Key.

NZ IS too casual in its approach to promoting the uptake of electric vehicles..

Like kryptonjohn I'd prefer to see subsidies and tax credits for low emission light vehicles, rather than punitive measures against others.

Carrots rather than sticks

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#1859694 6-Sep-2017 13:37

at the moment there's , what around 400 registered electric cars in NZ , so in 10 years or so we are going to have 4 million electric cars to replace the stock we have now, good luck on that or am i missing something.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#1859699 6-Sep-2017 13:42

tdgeek:

But you can't 100% phase them out, as what about enthusiasts, classics, vintages? Motor Racing.

The proposal (in Scotland) is to phase out sales of *NEW* petrol/diesel cars/vans. By definition, you can't buy new classic or vintage cars. ;)

I expect that enthusiasts would be able to keep running their petrol/diesel powered cars beyond 2032, just as you can still run a steam- or horse-powered vehicle nowadays. I expect that petrol-powered racing cars will become about as relevant as racehorses, and that most motor racing will also switch to electric power.

Diesel sales in particular would continue for some time, to supply the truck fleet. Petrol would gradually become more difficult to come by, but I don't see that being unavailable within another 20 years... there's plenty of 20-year-old cars on the road today, so you would expect some of the petrol-powered cars sold in 2031 to still be on the road 20 years later. I expect that petrol would still be needed for aircraft (and therefore available for cars) for a long time, because aircraft have a much longer life than cars. Whilst there *are* electric-powered aircraft now, their development is still a long way behind electric cars, and they're not really practical yet.

frankv

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#1859708 6-Sep-2017 13:58

vexxxboy:

at the moment there's , what around 400 registered electric cars in NZ , so in 10 years or so we are going to have 4 million electric cars to replace the stock we have now, good luck on that or am i missing something.

See https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=222921 for real numbers. There were 2438 EVs registered in NZ last year, not 400. We have 3.6 million light vehicles in NZ now. In one year, 307,000 light vehicles were imported. At that rate we could replace the entire fleet in about 12 years And 2032 is 15 years way, not 10 or so. So it is perfectly doable.

Cars in NZ have a life of about 20 years (plus a bit for some, minus a bit for many, minus a lot for some, average age is 14 years) so almost all the cars in NZ today will be scrapped and replaced by 2032 anyway, regardless of whether we change to EVs or not.

wellygary

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#1859720 6-Sep-2017 14:12

frednz:

This article reports that:

“Our aim is for new petrol and diesel cars and vans to be phased out in Scotland by 2032 – the end of the period covered by our new climate change plan and eight years ahead of the target set by the UK government,” Sturgeon said on Tuesday.

So, is there any reason why NZ shouldn't do the same?

“As members will be aware, we don’t currently hold powers over vehicle standards and taxation. However, we can and will take action,” she said.

Its political spin for local consumption,

but it will certainly need more wind farms as the Scottish grid is currently just over 50% renewable, ( although with nuclear an additional 35% - the carbon intensity is lower than average- but they have promised to phase nuclear out)

vexxxboy

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#1859740 6-Sep-2017 14:34

frankv:

vexxxboy:

at the moment there's , what around 400 registered electric cars in NZ , so in 10 years or so we are going to have 4 million electric cars to replace the stock we have now, good luck on that or am i missing something.

See https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=222921 for real numbers. There were 2438 EVs registered in NZ last year, not 400. We have 3.6 million light vehicles in NZ now. In one year, 307,000 light vehicles were imported. At that rate we could replace the entire fleet in about 12 years And 2032 is 15 years way, not 10 or so. So it is perfectly doable.

Cars in NZ have a life of about 20 years (plus a bit for some, minus a bit for many, minus a lot for some, average age is 14 years) so almost all the cars in NZ today will be scrapped and replaced by 2032 anyway, regardless of whether we change to EVs or not.

fair enough if we were the only country to try and do it and can i buy a EV's for around $6,000 and there are only 1900 full electric cars in NZ so wrong there, do you ban the hybrid ?

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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