Do we have an excess of road policing in New Zealand?

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#1407626 16-Oct-2015 09:47

MikeB4:
Jase2985:
MikeB4:
JimmyH:
MikeB4: My car will bring up a message on the driver management display telling me it's time for a rest which is good and I always stop for a rest. What would be better is all vehicles fitted with a device that will reduce the power output of the vehicle if the rest brake is not taken
and progressively reduces the power until complied with.

Providing that the vehicles are heavily advertised as such, so I can make sure I never buy one.

Life is full of annoyances, without having my car nag me as well.

I don't tend to drive long distances, and when I do it's for a reason. The last thing I want is to be miles from anywhere, in deteriorating weather, possibly rushing someone to hospital, and have my car decide to shut itself down because some software engineer thinks they know better than me.

It should be mandatory on all vehicles.

explain why, instead of just saying it should be

Driver fatigue is a factor in road accidents, it can be as imparring as alcohol/drugs. A device that enforces rest breaks is a step to reduce our appalling accident and death rates.

What you are describing sounds like an ideal solution.

Unfortunately it would only work in the ideal world.

It has already been pointed out that this "safety device" could itself cause dangerous situations by shutting down vehicles at inappropriate times.

How would it cope with the driver who was planning to stop and rest at the summit on an alpine road in Central Otago only to be caught in an unpredicted snow storm, they are unable to make their way down out of the alpine environment because the car software decides it is time to enforce a rest and end up trapped in snow overnight because by the time the enforced rest is over their car is unable to leave due to the snow now on the roads?

scuwp

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#1407628 16-Oct-2015 09:48

ScuL: Don't get me started on that. I'm used to driving 130km/h on a daily basis and have been doing so for the last 15 years (which is the recommended maximum speed limit in nearly all of the EU).
115km/h is perfectly safe on a dual carriageway with road conditions like that. Sometimes I have to nudge myself not to fall asleep with the low limits in this country, but I manage because I am a strong believer in sticking to road laws. It's just taking a while for NZ to upgrade parts of its key infrastructure to 2x2 120km/h standards. The cars are more than capable of doing so, it's just about filling the gaps in the infrastructure before policy can change. I suspect (and hope) that once the Waikato Expressway is complete past Hamilton we will see an increase to 110km/h if not 120km/h on that road.

Different country, different roads, different training, different population, different road use etc. You also need to appreciate the difference between individual risk and collective risk. The Police and road designers work mostly on the latter.

I am sure we 'might' see 110 at some point in the future on some key routes, but driving behavior in this country collectively is crap, this will need to change before any significantly higher speeds are remotely contemplated. Probably not in my lifetime.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

mckenndk

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#1407629 16-Oct-2015 09:50

Sometimes I would say not enough, my want is to have more of a target of slower drivers holding up traffic and since alot of warrants are 12 months now give fines for lights etc not working.

Thats my 2c worth.

MikeB4

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#1407674 16-Oct-2015 10:29

graemeh:
MikeB4:
Jase2985:
MikeB4:
JimmyH:
MikeB4: My car will bring up a message on the driver management display telling me it's time for a rest which is good and I always stop for a rest. What would be better is all vehicles fitted with a device that will reduce the power output of the vehicle if the rest brake is not taken
and progressively reduces the power until complied with.

Providing that the vehicles are heavily advertised as such, so I can make sure I never buy one.

Life is full of annoyances, without having my car nag me as well.

I don't tend to drive long distances, and when I do it's for a reason. The last thing I want is to be miles from anywhere, in deteriorating weather, possibly rushing someone to hospital, and have my car decide to shut itself down because some software engineer thinks they know better than me.

It should be mandatory on all vehicles.

explain why, instead of just saying it should be

Driver fatigue is a factor in road accidents, it can be as imparring as alcohol/drugs. A device that enforces rest breaks is a step to reduce our appalling accident and death rates.

What you are describing sounds like an ideal solution.

Unfortunately it would only work in the ideal world.

It has already been pointed out that this "safety device" could itself cause dangerous situations by shutting down vehicles at inappropriate times.

How would it cope with the driver who was planning to stop and rest at the summit on an alpine road in Central Otago only to be caught in an unpredicted snow storm, they are unable to make their way down out of the alpine environment because the car software decides it is time to enforce a rest and end up trapped in snow overnight because by the time the enforced rest is over their car is unable to leave due to the snow now on the roads?

I was not suggesting shutting I was suggesting gradually reducing the power output until a rest break is taken. E.G 10% drop every 5 minutes until a minimum of 20% is reached.

On our network we had a programme that forced rest beaks, the computer forced micro pauses and after x number of pauses a minutes rest break was forced. Now from memory those computers did not kill anyone yet we had this in place for safety.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Jase2985

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#1407678 16-Oct-2015 10:35

MikeB4:
Jase2985: so is the weather, so is poor roads, so is distractions like cellphones, so is poorly maintained vehicles. whats your solutions that that?

do you have statitics on crashes caused by fatigue?

Cellphones are being addressed, poor roads are being slowly addressed, the weather can be addressed by sensible actions by drivers, vehicle condition is addressed by the police.

As for statistics I am sure you know where these can be obtained.

oh look, fatigue can be address by that too

MikeB4

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#1407690 16-Oct-2015 10:40

Jase2985:
MikeB4:
Jase2985: so is the weather, so is poor roads, so is distractions like cellphones, so is poorly maintained vehicles. whats your solutions that that?

do you have statitics on crashes caused by fatigue?

Cellphones are being addressed, poor roads are being slowly addressed, the weather can be addressed by sensible actions by drivers, vehicle condition is addressed by the police.

As for statistics I am sure you know where these can be obtained.

oh look, fatigue can be address by that too

you can see flooding,snow etc you cannot see fatigue and a tired driver will not react to it as he/she does not recognise it happening.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

New World

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dclegg

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#1407700 16-Oct-2015 10:53

mckenndk: my want is to have more of a target of slower drivers holding up traffic

Slightly related to this...

I got a speeding ticket for 113KM/H last Friday. I'm more than willing to accept I was at fault, but it was a scenario you're probably all familiar with.

I was travelling behind two trucks in the 90 KM/H zone just outside of Auckland, heading down to Tauranga. They were often slowing down to below the speed limit, especially around corners. As soon as we hit the 100 KM/H zone (and the first passing lane), both trucks increased their speed to 100KM/H.

I wanted to get past them so they would not slow me down once we hit the hilly sections coming up. In order to do so before the passing lane finished, I had to exceed the speed limit. Unfortunately for me, I was 1/2 way through this manoeuvre when a cop came the other way. A minute later, there were flashing lights behind me, and I received my first speeding ticket in 28 years of driving.

I'd much rather err on the side of the law, and feel suitably chastised & embarrassed about this to ensure I won't be doing this again in future. But this will mean more frustrating journeys, as I'm stuck behind slow, and less considerate, traffic at times.

I also think we need to reconsider speed limits on some of our roads. During this trip, I travelled on the new stretch of motorway bypassing Te Puke. When travelling at 100 KM/H, it seriously felt like we were doing about half that speed. With a nice modern road like this, I think there is definitely scope to increase the speed limit.

Jase2985

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#1407702 16-Oct-2015 10:55

you are wanting to turn this country into a nanny state. most of the things you have mentioned is issues that people can deal with themselves. instead of cuddling or what your suggesting why not jsut make people more aware of it.

you example in the car, people can just ignore it, it changes nothing.

graemeh

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#1407712 16-Oct-2015 11:07

MikeB4: On our network we had a programme that forced rest beaks, the computer forced micro pauses and after x number of pauses a minutes rest break was forced. Now from memory those computers did not kill anyone yet we had this in place for safety.

That is another idea that seems like a good idea until you actually try using it.

Any tool like that MUST have a user override for those scenarios where the rest break must be delayed. Imagine if you're fixing a problem that is costing $200k per minute, you are seconds away from fixing, that one minute compulsory pause just cost $200k. You're printing a document for an important meeting and seconds before you hit print your PC locks up.

MikeB4

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#1407733 16-Oct-2015 11:08

Jase2985: you are wanting to turn this country into a nanny state. most of the things you have mentioned is issues that people can deal with themselves. instead of cuddling or what your suggesting why not jsut make people more aware of it.

you example in the car, people can just ignore it, it changes nothing.

I was waiting for the old "nanny state" smoke screen. Fact hundreds are killed and injured on our roads each year, the cost to the country is huge and yet we have drivers who believe that driving is a game and our roads are their play ground and then bleat it's their right to do so.
It most certainly is not their right to do so. NZ drivers continue to demonstrate their unwillingness to alter their terrible driving voluntarily therefore judicial means should be explored to force the change.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#1407734 16-Oct-2015 11:13

graemeh:
MikeB4: On our network we had a programme that forced rest beaks, the computer forced micro pauses and after x number of pauses a minutes rest break was forced. Now from memory those computers did not kill anyone yet we had this in place for safety.

That is another idea that seems like a good idea until you actually try using it.

Any tool like that MUST have a user override for those scenarios where the rest break must be delayed. Imagine if you're fixing a problem that is costing $200k per minute, you are seconds away from fixing, that one minute compulsory pause just cost $200k. You're printing a document for an important meeting and seconds before you hit print your PC locks up.

Certain staff on approval could delay the rest break for that exact circumstance.

In a vehicle this could be First responders, Police, Fire doctors etc

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

Jase2985

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#1407737 16-Oct-2015 11:15

MikeB4:
Jase2985: you are wanting to turn this country into a nanny state. most of the things you have mentioned is issues that people can deal with themselves. instead of cuddling or what your suggesting why not jsut make people more aware of it.

you example in the car, people can just ignore it, it changes nothing.

I was waiting for the old "nanny state" smoke screen. Fact hundreds are killed and injured on our roads each year, the cost to the country is huge and yet we have drivers who believe that driving is a game and our roads are their play ground and then bleat it's their right to do so.
It most certainly is not their right to do so. NZ drivers continue to demonstrate their unwillingness to alter their terrible driving voluntarily therefore judicial means should be explored to force the change.

nanny state is not a smoke screen, its when you want someone else to take responsibility for your actions because you just dont want to yourself. passing the blame to someone else.

why not improve driver training? why not have to resit your license every 10/15 years? why not look to change the internation liscense regulations, so you cant just transfer your liscence after 6/12 months so you are actually trained for NZ.

many ways to do it with out being a nanny state.

but hey, if you dont mind the government interfering in every aspect of your life then good on you

scuwp

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#1407769 16-Oct-2015 11:39

Jase2985:
MikeB4:
Jase2985: you are wanting to turn this country into a nanny state. most of the things you have mentioned is issues that people can deal with themselves. instead of cuddling or what your suggesting why not jsut make people more aware of it.

you example in the car, people can just ignore it, it changes nothing.

I was waiting for the old "nanny state" smoke screen. Fact hundreds are killed and injured on our roads each year, the cost to the country is huge and yet we have drivers who believe that driving is a game and our roads are their play ground and then bleat it's their right to do so.
It most certainly is not their right to do so. NZ drivers continue to demonstrate their unwillingness to alter their terrible driving voluntarily therefore judicial means should be explored to force the change.

nanny state is not a smoke screen, its when you want someone else to take responsibility for your actions because you just dont want to yourself. passing the blame to someone else.

why not improve driver training? why not have to resit your license every 10/15 years? why not look to change the internation liscense regulations, so you cant just transfer your liscence after 6/12 months so you are actually trained for NZ.

many ways to do it with out being a nanny state.

but hey, if you dont mind the government interfering in every aspect of your life then good on you

I fail to see the difference. All of the suggestions you have made are state-compelled/legal requirements forced upon citizens that could equally be deemed "nanny state" interference.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Kyanar

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#1407785 16-Oct-2015 11:54

MikeB4:
graemeh:
MikeB4: On our network we had a programme that forced rest beaks, the computer forced micro pauses and after x number of pauses a minutes rest break was forced. Now from memory those computers did not kill anyone yet we had this in place for safety.

That is another idea that seems like a good idea until you actually try using it.

Any tool like that MUST have a user override for those scenarios where the rest break must be delayed. Imagine if you're fixing a problem that is costing $200k per minute, you are seconds away from fixing, that one minute compulsory pause just cost $200k. You're printing a document for an important meeting and seconds before you hit print your PC locks up.

Certain staff on approval could delay the rest break for that exact circumstance.

In a vehicle this could be First responders, Police, Fire doctors etc

How exactly does it help? "Oh my car has stopped. I'd best call the Fire Service and waste hours of police time to get to me to tell my car to start up again so I can get out of this storm". And let's not even look at the risks imposed by introducing yet another system into the CAN bus with direct control over the engine power that can be compromised.

Face it, it's a stupid idea. The fatigue problem can and should be solved the same way that the speed and drink driving problems are being addressed. Education, social pressure, and enforcement.

MikeB4

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#1407816 16-Oct-2015 12:32

Kyanar:
MikeB4:
graemeh:
MikeB4: On our network we had a programme that forced rest beaks, the computer forced micro pauses and after x number of pauses a minutes rest break was forced. Now from memory those computers did not kill anyone yet we had this in place for safety.

That is another idea that seems like a good idea until you actually try using it.

Any tool like that MUST have a user override for those scenarios where the rest break must be delayed. Imagine if you're fixing a problem that is costing $200k per minute, you are seconds away from fixing, that one minute compulsory pause just cost $200k. You're printing a document for an important meeting and seconds before you hit print your PC locks up.

Certain staff on approval could delay the rest break for that exact circumstance.

In a vehicle this could be First responders, Police, Fire doctors etc

How exactly does it help? "Oh my car has stopped. I'd best call the Fire Service and waste hours of police time to get to me to tell my car to start up again so I can get out of this storm". And let's not even look at the risks imposed by introducing yet another system into the CAN bus with direct control over the engine power that can be compromised.

Face it, it's a stupid idea. The fatigue problem can and should be solved the same way that the speed and drink driving problems are being addressed. Education, social pressure, and enforcement.

If you read again what I wrote I did not say the device would bring a vehicle to a stop, I suggested a device that reduces the power output progressively down to 20% until a rest break is taken

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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