Clean car package

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Clean car package

1 | ... | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | ... | 17

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2737698 2-Jul-2021 07:54

Dingbatt:

Or just tax fuel?

Sure. You just need to make sure that to levy any penalty/benefit measures, that the EV/low emission cars are plentiful. And that you are able to exclude those that have no choice, i.e. tradies and farmers.

Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2737706 2-Jul-2021 08:21

tdgeek:

Dingbatt:

Or just tax fuel?

Sure. You just need to make sure that to levy any penalty/benefit measures, that the EV/low emission cars are plentiful. And that you are able to exclude those that have no choice, i.e. tradies and farmers.

Why?

Emissions are emissions, aren’t they? Or does politics come into it in the same way as there being a cap on purchase price?

If only there was a scheme where emitters would pay and net reducers would receive. Where there would be a value put on carbon emissions…….

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tdgeek

29746 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2737711 2-Jul-2021 08:34

Dingbatt:

Why?

Emissions are emissions, aren’t they? Or does politics come into it in the same way as there being a cap on purchase price?

If only there was a scheme where emitters would pay and net reducers would receive. Where there would be a value put on carbon emissions…….

You can't penalise anyone where there is no choice to comply. As regards the cap, well that's obvious

Handsomedan

7293 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2737715 2-Jul-2021 08:47

Batman:

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/watch-who-really-benefits-from-the-government-s-clean-car-feebate-scheme/

relating to 2nd hand / imports

Driven: "The EVs are going to come in more expensive, which is completely contrary to what was hoped, and when the fee side of it starts in January, we're going to have the pressure coming off the less desirable vehicles, and so we'll be able to buy to them more cheaply."

"We've got this completely perverse incentive which is exactly what we said would happen, and it's already playing out. It's just two weeks since the minister made his announcement, and we're already seeing those adverse effects."

Didn't people warn this might happen - right from the off?

Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale

*Gladly accepting donations...

nzkiwiman

2585 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2737716 2-Jul-2021 08:48

I took a look at the website yesterday; been significantly updated with more guidelines and who can and cannot get a rebate along with what was needed.

Hopefully next week when I get my Tesla, I am able to get all the documents I need from them. At the moment all I have are some vague emails and an invoice dated June 2021 ...

frankv

5680 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2737720 2-Jul-2021 09:01

tdgeek:

Dingbatt:

Why?

Emissions are emissions, aren’t they? Or does politics come into it in the same way as there being a cap on purchase price?

You can't penalise anyone where there is no choice to comply. As regards the cap, well that's obvious

It's not about penalising people. It's about people paying the actual cost of whatever they choose. If they choose petroleum-based fuels, then they pay not only the cost of extracting it and refining it, but also repairing the damage done to the environment by burning it.

There is always a choice. If you want a ute, you can buy what Toyota sells and use it, or you can buy one and convert it to electric yourself, or you can buy an electric car and convert it to a ute. If none of those choices appeals, you can get more or less the same utility from a car plus trailer.

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2737741 2-Jul-2021 09:25

Maybe they should have just kept the rebate for new vehicles instead.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

richms

28176 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2737773 2-Jul-2021 10:12

Dingbatt:

Or just tax fuel?

Too simple, and that doesn't punish those that only want a big car for car shows and cars and coffee enough, and think of those poor people with high emission cars that drive them a lot actually making emissions having to pay all that extra on their fuel vs a one off comparatively small cost on the registration of the car.

Total ballsup IMO this scam/scheme but at least I have another 6 months to find something nice, land it and get it regoed without having to pay a pointless charge.

Richard rich.ms

Scott3

3970 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2737838 2-Jul-2021 10:58

Dingbatt:

Or just tax fuel?

Ultimately that would be the most efficient outcome, but it does have a lot of failings.

Regressive. - Wealthy have the ability to avoid the tax (or simply pay it), but the large poor family with an old minivan that burns 10+ L/100km in the real world has just had their fuel bill increase substantially.
New car buyers often only plan to own the car for 2 - 6 years, and may only consider the fuel cost for the vehicle for that period. Typically fuel cost is dwarfed by deprecation over this period, so it may not be considered at all... But when they sell the car, it still has 15 or so years of useful life, and we are essentially stuck with the vehicle in our used fleet.
Rental car companies are a major buyer of new cars in NZ. They don't pay fuel as their customer pay for it. Unlikely fuel economy would be a big buying criteria for them. (again stuck with their cars in the used fleet once we sell them.

The feebate scheme is designed to incentive lower emissions vehicles at the time of entry into the NZ fleet. Avoids impact on those in poverty (they arn't buying new or fresh import cars anyway), and its revenue balanced nature makes it more politically palatable.

Will likely see a significant response from auto importers. I.e. ford makes and sells in the UK a ranger 4x4 with emissions low enough to get into the free band. I wouldn't be surprised if they start bringing that power-train option to NZ.

Of course it's not without downsides. An obvious one is that it doesn't capture real world use.

For example, It would be more feebate efficient for a buyer to get a smaller car, and add a roofbox, or tow a trailer than it would be for them to get a large vehicle. Extra fuel consumption caused by the roofbox or trailer is not considered by the feebate sceheme.

Jas777

838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2737911 2-Jul-2021 13:41

frankv:

It's not about penalising people. It's about people paying the actual cost of whatever they choose. If they choose petroleum-based fuels, then they pay not only the cost of extracting it and refining it, but also repairing the damage done to the environment by burning it.

There is always a choice. If you want a ute, you can buy what Toyota sells and use it, or you can buy one and convert it to electric yourself, or you can buy an electric car and convert it to a ute. If none of those choices appeals, you can get more or less the same utility from a car plus trailer.

So in the case of a business or farmer then the buyer of the end product should bear some of the cost as well?

And also when the battery gets replaced in the future as part of the cost of a new battery you have to pay the full price to get rid of the old one?

Daynger

435 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2738007 2-Jul-2021 16:39

frankv:

There is always a choice. If you want a ute, you can buy what Toyota sells and use it, or you can buy one and convert it to electric yourself, or you can buy an electric car and convert it to a ute. If none of those choices appeals, you can get more or less the same utility from a car plus trailer.

Thats some really bad options on all counts right there, apart from the first one, buy a ute and use it.

Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2738010 2-Jul-2021 16:47

Scott3:

Dingbatt:

Or just tax fuel?

Ultimately that would be the most efficient outcome, but it does have a lot of failings.

Yes, add,

Not virtue signalling enough,

Would be a tax,

Would be hardest on “the most vulnerable” (requiring a ‘Transport for Families’ payment),

Im sure if someone tried hard enough they could ‘prove’ it was racist, sexist, colonialist, etc….

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

kingdragonfly

11192 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2738293 3-Jul-2021 10:46

Obraik:There is currently 102 listed on TradeMe. Not all of those will be fresh imports so they won't qualify but a quick scroll shows many that are (going by lack of number plates in photos).

I see that "2cheapcars" is selling 6 Nissan Leafs for sale. I've had no deallings with them. caveat emptor

From Stuff 2019: 2 Cheap Cars fined nearly $500k for 'devious' behaviour

Used car dealer 2 Cheap Cars Limited has been fined $438,000 for misleading its customers.

The Commerce Commission took the company to court over its "warranty waiver" documents and a liquidation sale.

The waiver documents misled buyers about the rights they had to rectify problems with a purchase.

The documents said that they would not get a warranty of any kind, and that although 2 Cheap Cars would comply with the Consumer Guarantees Act, the buyer would "prefer to be" solely responsible for repair bills.

...It also ran a "liquidation sale" in September and October of 17 in advertising for which it said the business was in "hot water".

But most of the 710 vehicles then for sale nationwide were not discounted at all or had discounts of as little as $5, and 2 Cheap Cars was not in, or going into, liquidation.

In January 2017 2 Cheap Cars' newspaper advertising included the phrase "84 per cent off". The discount was not off the price of a vehicle but off the price of a $300 GrabOne voucher that could then be used towards purchasing a vehicle....
...

kingdragonfly

11192 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2738307 3-Jul-2021 11:12

Not sure how he got this list

Hyundai Ioniq 5
Hyundai Ioniq Electric Entry & Elite
Hyundai Kona Electric
KIA Nero EV EX & SX
MG ZS EV
Mini Electric
Nissan Leaf
Renault Zoe
Tesla Model 3 SR+
VW E-Golf

What you need to know about the New Zealand EV Rebate

Tesla Cam New Zealand

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2740363 7-Jul-2021 09:35

Already seeing peoples applications processed and paid out 6 days later. Pretty quick for gov!

1 | ... | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | ... | 17