Nissan LEAF - General

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#1574789 16-Jun-2016 07:26

Scott3 - The EVSE has had an appropriate transformer installed in it. The sparky said they learned early on this needed to be done or the EVSE's would burn out in a week or two.

The powerpoint included in my charging photo has been completed. The sparky came back Monday morning bright and early and installed a 3112 residential outdoor power point into the box mounted on the wall of the house. So it's all wired up appropriately and enclosed appropriately.

The handset for connecting to the 3112 can do 16amps provided I use an appropriate power cord. Most are 10 amps, so I would not want to do 16amps through a 10amp cord.

Thanks for your concern. It looks good here. I'm satisfied this solutions is adequate.

The unit from Juicepoint looks good! I might get one of those anyway as a backup.

I've had a look at the Juicepoint web site. It could be a little more forthcoming about pricing. I don't see where you got your pricing. The "Products" tab should let me link to a fuller description of the product and some photos and maybe how to make an order. A couple of greyed-out lines of text isn't very helpful.

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#1574808 16-Jun-2016 08:10

Linuxluver:

Scott3 - The EVSE has had an appropriate transformer installed in it. The sparky said they learned early on this needed to be done or the EVSE's would burn out in a week or two.

This is a worrying admission by the car yard about supplying electrical equipment that is unsuitable for use in NZ.

Juice point dosn't display pricing on their website. Old school way of doing things, you have to phone / email to ask.

http://www.juicepoint.co.nz/products#3

My pricing came from there blog (under news) post from November 2014, unlikely to still be current, but I mentioned it to show a legal 8A EVSE is generally cheaper.

Linuxluver

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#1574811 16-Jun-2016 08:18

Scott3:

Linuxluver:

Scott3 - The EVSE has had an appropriate transformer installed in it. The sparky said they learned early on this needed to be done or the EVSE's would burn out in a week or two.

This is a worrying admission by the car yard about supplying electrical equipment that is unsuitable for use in NZ.

Juice point dosn't display pricing on their website. Old school way of doing things, you have to phone / email to ask.

http://www.juicepoint.co.nz/products#3

My pricing came from there blog (under news) post from November 2014, unlikely to still be current, but I mentioned it to show a legal 8A EVSE is generally cheaper.

Thanks, Scott. Any "addmissions" are hearsay at this point. I;ve messaged them to ask about this and to suggest they modify the labelling appropriately to reflect any local compliance modifications they may have made.

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#1575401 16-Jun-2016 22:22

Linuxluver: Thanks, Scott. Any "addmissions" are hearsay at this point. I;ve messaged them to ask about this and to suggest they modify the labelling appropriately to reflect any local compliance modifications they may have made.

While I don't want to push up costs for EVs, the current practice of supplying EVSEs (being sold as part of the car) with a label that shows rated for 200V is dodgy. The problem for the electrician doing the mods is they will be reluctant to change that label so where does the liability rest?

Our local dealer (Gazley) made their own call to put those Nissan units to one side and buy NZ rated EVSE to sell with the car which puts up their prices (e.g. by $700). Another local dealer is selling Leafs with the original Nissan brick with 200V rating labels and 15A 3112 plugs - they have a price advantage.

I doubt any other supplier of electrical equipment in NZ would be handing over units with labels saying 200V. Probably only a subset of Geekzone readers have electrical certifications but what do others think?

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#1575411 16-Jun-2016 22:53

There are legit adapters to plug 15 and 16a things into 10a outlets that have a 10A circuit breaker on them. They are needed for welders etc to be legit, even tho noone is going to run that welder at max where it would exceed 10A, they still have to protect it like that incase someone comes along and winds it all the way up.

Using a cheap travel adapter like that and telling people to leave it on 10A is just as bad as filing the pins down on a welder and telling people not to turn it up past half way. Not sure that the shuco plug is allowable here either, last I checked it had to be 3112 on anything 10A or under, and anything with the right approvals for over 10A - doubt that the plug on an overseas device will have any approvals for use here.

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#1575446 17-Jun-2016 07:02

There are two separate issues regarding the EVSE. Supplying an adapter cable intended to feed a 16A capable device from a 10A socket without overload protection is just stupid and must be rectified. The 200V rated EVSE is probably a lot less of a risk but I doubt anyone would certify the units.

What happens if you want to plug in your car at another location and they require a test and tag label? It shouldn't be too hard to get the tag for a NZ supplied and rated unit but would anyone in the industry put a tag onto a device that had a label saying 200V ?

There are many users out these who don't want to worry about the details but would still prefer to be doing the right thing. They rely on the vendor and I think practices have to change.

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#1575483 17-Jun-2016 08:44

richms:

There are legit adapters to plug 15 and 16a things into 10a outlets that have a 10A circuit breaker on them. They are needed for welders etc to be legit, even tho noone is going to run that welder at max where it would exceed 10A, they still have to protect it like that incase someone comes along and winds it all the way up.

Using a cheap travel adapter like that and telling people to leave it on 10A is just as bad as filing the pins down on a welder and telling people not to turn it up past half way. Not sure that the shuco plug is allowable here either, last I checked it had to be 3112 on anything 10A or under, and anything with the right approvals for over 10A - doubt that the plug on an overseas device will have any approvals for use here.

Help me understand the problem. First, my outlet isn't a 10amp outlet. It's a 16amp outlet. Here's the whole chain of connection:

The handset for plugging into residential outlets maxs at 16 amps. The cable carrying the charge to / from the car to the power point is 16amp at least. The 3112-type power point being plugged into is rated at 16amp. The (dedicated) circuit the power point is on is maxed at 20amp with a breaker.

The charger itself is in the vehicle. The connector just carries power to the vehicle.

Since every part of the connection for (non-EVSE) charging is rated at least 16amp, where's the problem? I'm not seeing it.

As for the EVSE, it has been modded to handle 16amp / 240v. Where's the problem? The labelling issue is being addressed apparently.

So far, to me, objections have a magical feel to them as what I actually see is all components rated at the appropriate level of specification.

What might I be missing?

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#1575484 17-Jun-2016 08:51

Haven't read this discussion, too long. Recently bought a Nissan from a Nissan dealer (petrol engine) and talked to him about the Leaf. From memory, he said NZ is a tiny market, and with the exchange rate they're just super expensive when they get here.

We have a larger petrol family car, but when I replace my work runabout in a few years it'd be nice to have electric. I doubt the price will be down enough by then though.

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#1575485 17-Jun-2016 08:54

timmmay:

Haven't read this discussion, too long. Recently bought a Nissan from a Nissan dealer (petrol engine) and talked to him about the Leaf. From memory, he said NZ is a tiny market, and with the exchange rate they're just super expensive when they get here.

We have a larger petrol family car, but when I replace my work runabout in a few years it'd be nice to have electric. I doubt the price will be down enough by then though.

You can buy a 2011 LEAF for $20K or less. The Nissan dealer was thinking of the $75,000 they tried to sell them for and the $39K they finally quit them at.

The parallel imports are much, MUCH cheaper because they benefit from the sizeable EV subsidy the Japanese govt offer. NZ govt doesn't...so that's why Nissan stopped selling them here.

My 2015 Gen 2 Model S LEAF with 3,123 kms on the clock was $29,995 on road costs all-included.

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RUKI

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#1575489 17-Jun-2016 08:57

Linuxluver:

Where's the problem? ....What might I be missing?

This forum has few experts on the subject and it was already written between the lines in a few posts...

Linuxluver

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#1575492 17-Jun-2016 09:04

RUKI:

Linuxluver:

Where's the problem? ....What might I be missing?

This forum has few experts on the subject and it was already written between the lines in a few posts...

Fair enough.

My concern is that some of the objections are based on assumptions that aren't supported by what I actually have in front of me. The one that does standout as valid is the failure to re-label modified components. I've addressed that with the vendor and they say they are aware of it and sorting it out.

Other than that, many of the comments assume 10amps when that isn't relevant in this case as all components are 16amp.

I absolutely understand the desire - and the need - to get the electricals right. I had an electrical fire at my previous house 18 months ago that was due to people in the house not understanding the risk of induction heat by coiling wires. (Don't do it. It looks tidy, but might burn your house down).

For those offering advice, I'm grateful for the time, interest and concern. In response, I like to test my own understanding in the light of the comments made, using the information I have in front of me. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm arguing. I'm trying to work out if I have a problem or not...and so far - labelling issues aside - it doesn't look like I do (but someone with a more usual 10amp power point might if they didn't upgrade it).

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#1575595 17-Jun-2016 11:04

Clearly that is not a risk. Personally my secondary comments on it were intended to refer to a 16A device with a 10A adaptor and no protection as being the bad thing.

Rereading I see I was not specific on that and it is misleading and inaccurate without the context above. I'll ask mod to remove.

richms

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#1575632 17-Jun-2016 11:31

You have bought a charger that can be set to take 16A thru a 10A outlet with no overcurrent protection. How can you not see that is a hazard?

Telling you to set it to 10A is not enough overload protection on it. This is in relation to the shuko adapter with the 3112 10A adapter on it.

Linuxluver:

Absolutely. I bought the optional cable that does exactly that. Autolink sell them for $1,000. I didn't see how I could NOT have one as having one means I can charge the car anywhere, any time a regular power outlet is available. Slower (about 2/3s the speed of 16amps?).....but it gets the job done. Here's a photo. As you can see, you can select the amp rating. I was told to use 10amps.

This cable lets me charge up - slower - from any normal power point.

Your use of an industrial plug instead of a caravan one in your carport is fine. Unusual but fine. Reason for keeping with the 16A caravan plugs is so many houses have one of those on the outside of them already, and there is also campsites etc using them as in the past it got them out of having to have RCD protection vs a 3112 outlet.

Richard rich.ms

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#1575681 17-Jun-2016 12:15

The confusion seems to be about the termonolgy used to describe the plug at the end of the black adaptor attached to the grey "portable" cord.

From the photo we can tell this is a standard flat pinned domestic plug (10A, 3112 type).

There also 15A and 20A versions of the flat pinned plug, but the pins are visiably different. there is no 16A flat pinned plug.

The round pinned pdl plug is the same type we call the caravan or campground plug. it is rated for a 16A current, so this one will not be overloaded.

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#1575849 17-Jun-2016 16:12

richms:

You have bought a charger that can be set to take 16A thru a 10A outlet with no overcurrent protection. How can you not see that is a hazard?

Telling you to set it to 10A is not enough overload protection on it. This is in relation to the shuko adapter with the 3112 10A adapter on it.

Your use of an industrial plug instead of a caravan one in your carport is fine. Unusual but fine. Reason for keeping with the 16A caravan plugs is so many houses have one of those on the outside of them already, and there is also campsites etc using them as in the past it got them out of having to have RCD protection vs a 3112 outlet.

Of course. Now I see it. I was thinking about just my own 3112 plug. As you rightly point out, most 3112 plugs are 10 amps, not 16amps.

Mystery solved. Thank you for your patience.

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