Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

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#2729657 16-Jun-2021 14:23

BlinkyBill:

I don’t think NZ should maintain a military; perhaps the military should fund themselves?

A key point of a democracy is to appoint a body to determine the collective good, and raise and disburse funding for stuff that benefits the collective. If you don’t like money spent on anything in particular, you should probably participate in that body and make decisions directly.

Having said that, I don’t think the cycle bridge is a good use of $1b .

I don't either, but the haters were apoplectic over the idea that cyclists might get a dedicated lane on the existing harbour bridge.

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#2729667 16-Jun-2021 14:48

SaltyNZ:

BlinkyBill:

I don’t think NZ should maintain a military; perhaps the military should fund themselves?

A key point of a democracy is to appoint a body to determine the collective good, and raise and disburse funding for stuff that benefits the collective. If you don’t like money spent on anything in particular, you should probably participate in that body and make decisions directly.

Having said that, I don’t think the cycle bridge is a good use of $1b .

I don't either, but the haters were apoplectic over the idea that cyclists might get a dedicated lane on the existing harbour bridge.

Well we could queue the cyclists, wait until there are 50-100 of them, change the lane to cycle, and then swap it back.

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#2729668 16-Jun-2021 14:50

sir1963:

Well we could queue the cyclists, wait until there are 50-100 of them, change the lane to cycle, and then swap it back.

That sounds like a scheme designed to make everyone hate each other even more.

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#2729669 16-Jun-2021 14:53

SaltyNZ:

sir1963:

Well we could queue the cyclists, wait until there are 50-100 of them, change the lane to cycle, and then swap it back.

That sounds like a scheme designed to make everyone hate each other even more.

Or share the resource.

Its what every motorists has to do with traffic lights.

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#2729670 16-Jun-2021 14:55

SaltyNZ:

BlinkyBill:

I don’t think NZ should maintain a military; perhaps the military should fund themselves?

A key point of a democracy is to appoint a body to determine the collective good, and raise and disburse funding for stuff that benefits the collective. If you don’t like money spent on anything in particular, you should probably participate in that body and make decisions directly.

Having said that, I don’t think the cycle bridge is a good use of $1b .

I don't either, but the haters were apoplectic over the idea that cyclists might get a dedicated lane on the existing harbour bridge.

Cyclists were just as apoplectic when it was suggested the pay for something.

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#2729673 16-Jun-2021 15:00

sir1963:

Or share the resource.

Its what every motorists has to do with traffic lights.

Look, I don't ride a bike, I don't have a bike; I live 55km away from work. So personally I have no skin in this game. But surely you can see how cars & bicycles sharing the harbour bridge is inherently a deadly risk? The lanes are barely wide enough for cars and the average Auckland driver navigates by touch and treats the very concept of indicating their intentions by the use of the stick handily placed right underneath their fingers with paranoid suspicion.

If cyclists shared the harbour bridge with cars, there'd be someone dead within the week.

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#2729687 16-Jun-2021 15:20

SaltyNZ:

If cyclists shared the harbour bridge with cars, there'd be someone dead within the week.

And if enough people died, the powers that be would come up with a real solution to the problem, not silly faery bridges.

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#2729688 16-Jun-2021 15:33

Rikkitic:

And if enough people died, the powers that be would come up with a real solution to the problem, not silly faery bridges.

Other than "give cyclists a lane on the existing bridge" or "build a new bridge for cyclists" I'm curious to know what that solution might look like. "Build a new tunnel for cyclists" would probably be more expensive than a bridge. Anyone who wanted to catch a bus over the bridge with their bike is likely already doing it.

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#2729690 16-Jun-2021 15:40

In Holland the city of Amsterdam also has a north shore. There is a dedicated car tunnel that goes under the water. There is also a continuous free ferry service that takes cyclists and pedestrians across it. The ride is quick and enjoyable and no-one I know of has ever objected to the lack of a cycle tunnel. There are always solutions to things.

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ezbee

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#2729691 16-Jun-2021 15:43

I don't know for sure, so if someone with firm knowledge can comment.

My understanding is that the busses don't have capability to support carrying cycles, trains will accept a folding bicycle providing its in a clean cover ?

There is not a dedicated bus lane on the bridge , let alone a cycle one ?
Thus the argument that before we do a cycle one maybe we have a bus lane, with extra cycle friendly busses to take non folding bikes.

I could be wrong.

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#2729708 16-Jun-2021 16:52

SaltyNZ:

Anyone who wanted to catch a bus over the bridge with their bike is likely already doing it.

And now we get to the crux of it!

Nobody takes a bike on the bus, because they can't or won't accommodate them.

I can fold down my scooter and take it on most buses, but there is nowhere for bikes to go on the North Shore bus services. They instead provide bike parking at the park n rides, which don't help cyclists at all if they aren't reaching their destination at the end of the bus route they're on.

The only way to get a bike to town is via the ferry or around the North Western motorway.

Add some bike storage to buses and maybe some of the angst will go away and we won't need to spend a billion dollars.

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#2729806 16-Jun-2021 18:32

A proper cycle trailer on a bunch of buses could be an option. The mountain-bike world uses them to take a bunch of bikers up to the top of the hill. The issue would be load/unload times.

Any potential cycle-only lane needs to be separated from general traffic or you can guarantee people will just merge into it, even if in theory it's time-shared.

One option could be a combined cycle+bus lane, separated from the rest of the bridge traffic by barriers/dividers. No room for the buses to overtake so the cyclists should be reasonably safe, the buses get access that's at least more priority than general traffic, and bunching up the cyclists should limit the delays to buses.

Doesn't work for bi-directional traffic unless you make it bi-directional cycle only during off-peak hours, and have no access to anti-peak traffic.

GV27

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#2729932 17-Jun-2021 06:34

Handsomedan:

Add some bike storage to buses and maybe some of the angst will go away and we won't need to spend a billion dollars.

For what they're proposing spending on this massive bridge, they could have bought bike-specific shuttles and give a lane each way to buses. Throw everyone off at the tank farm and just run them back and forth all day.

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#2730024 17-Jun-2021 10:43

I wasn’t going to come out of retirement from Geekzone but this thread has just got to me. Why is it whenever something is proposed or implemented for cycling, a viable green transport, be it a simple cycle lane or a bridge the crying and hand waving that ensues is ridiculous. This seldom occurs for the billions spent on new roads like all the expressways, bridges, tunnels constructed in recent years or planned. If they had proposed dedicated shuttles the cries would be heard in the Chathams.Every cycle lane installed attracts a childish response from entitled bigots, yes bigots, the anti cyclist nonsense is the new bigotry that is harming Aotearoa, it is sickening and dangerous. As for charging cyclists RUCs, that is stupidity. Many cyclists own motor vehicles and already pay road tax along with other taxes or are there exemptions I don’t know about. Many cycles are never ridden on roads, I don’t ride on the roads due to homicidal motorists. There are a lot of cyclists that are minors and don’t earn. Lastly how much damage does a cycle do to the road surface? The administration and enforcement of this ludicrous notion would soak up any funds generated and the net result would be negative. The costs to accommodate transport alternatives can be funded out of current taxes and charges.

The adoption of green transport alternatives such as cycles is not a luxury it is a necessity for the future of our planet and it certainly does not harm folks to get off their butts, out of their cars and try riding a bike but just be aware there are motorists that will attempt to hurt you like the ones that have deliberately swerved at my wife forcing her to go up over the curb to avoid being hit. I know change can be hard to accept but we all need to accept the world is changing and we must change and accept cycling and other alternatives to motor vehicles. I applaud the Poneke City Councils’ plan to ban cars from Lambton Quay, Wiilis and Manner streets. It is a step in the right direction to reduce the dependency on cars. I also applaud the Tamaki Makaurau Councils’ bridge plan. The bridge is building for the long term and not the normal short-sighted way councils and government do it which is refreshing.

sxz

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#2730028 17-Jun-2021 10:49

MikeB4:

I wasn’t going to come out of retirement from Geekzone but this thread has just got to me. Why is it whenever something is proposed or implemented for cycling, a viable green transport, be it a simple cycle lane or a bridge the crying and hand waving that ensues is ridiculous. This seldom occurs for the billions spent on new roads like all the expressways, bridges, tunnels constructed in recent years or planned. If they had proposed dedicated shuttles the cries would be heard in the Chathams.Every cycle lane installed attracts a childish response from entitled bigots, yes bigots, the anti cyclist nonsense is the new bigotry that is harming Aotearoa, it is sickening and dangerous. As for charging cyclists RUCs, that is stupidity. Many cyclists own motor vehicles and already pay road tax along with other taxes or are there exemptions I don’t know about. Many cycles are never ridden on roads, I don’t ride on the roads due to homicidal motorists. There are a lot of cyclists that are minors and don’t earn. Lastly how much damage does a cycle do to the road surface? The administration and enforcement of this ludicrous notion would soak up any funds generated and the net result would be negative. The costs to accommodate transport alternatives can be funded out of current taxes and charges.

The adoption of green transport alternatives such as cycles is not a luxury it is a necessity for the future of our planet and it certainly does not harm folks to get off their butts, out of their cars and try riding a bike but just be aware there are motorists that will attempt to hurt you like the ones that have deliberately swerved at my wife forcing her to go up over the curb to avoid being hit. I know change can be hard to accept but we all need to accept the world is changing and we must change and accept cycling and other alternatives to motor vehicles. I applaud the Poneke City Councils’ plan to ban cars from Lambton Quay, Wiilis and Manner streets. It is a step in the right direction to reduce the dependency on cars. I also applaud the Tamaki Makaurau Councils’ bridge plan. The bridge is building for the long term and not the normal short-sighted way councils and government do it which is refreshing.

Agreed, all round.

Next OP will want pedestrians to pay a footpath user tax.

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