Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

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sir1963

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#286082 4-Jun-2021 11:20

Lets look at some of the arguments.

Cyclists pay road taxes when they use their car.

True, but that covers the use of the car while on the road. Its not like motorists with 2 vehicles get to only pay for one.

There are some cyclists who do not own cars.

Motorists also pay additional fees for certain sections of road, the Auckland Harbour Bridge , Mt Maunganui bridge, Northern gateway toll road, etc.

Local roads are paid by rates, and cyclists pay rates.

Again true, but in Auckland and other regions motorists are paying up to 10c a litre extra that goes to councils to pay for roads .

People who swim also pay rates, but they are expected to pay extra if they want to use the swimming pool.

Dog owners pay rates, they are also expected to pay registration fees for their dogs.

People don't pay to use foot paths

Again true, footpaths are paid from rates but the majority of people will use them during normal every day life, even if its walking from shop to shop.

The government is looking to spend $700 Million for a new cycle/foot bridge in Auckland , will this be paid for my motorists ?

Should cyclists contribute more towards these projects, they use all of the facilities effectively for free and rely on the "everyone else" who do not use the facilities to pay most of the costs.

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#2718176 4-Jun-2021 11:22

Can of worms opened.

Awaiting PeterReader to step in with 'here we go...'

cokemaster

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#2718182 4-Jun-2021 11:24

Ultimately, yes, cyclists need to contribute towards infrastructure costs that they consume.

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sir1963

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#2718189 4-Jun-2021 11:37

cokemaster: Ultimately, yes, cyclists need to contribute towards infrastructure costs that they consume.

Which begs the questions:

How much ?

How is it collected ?

Talkiet

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#2718193 4-Jun-2021 11:45

Sheesh, before you post something like this would you at least post a warning so everyone can stock up on popcorn and snacks?

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blackjack17

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#2718194 4-Jun-2021 11:48

This old argument.

As someone that cycles into work everyday, I think this bridge idea is a massive waste of money, not saying that the money shouldn't be spent on cycling infrastructure but $700 million on one connection is a waste. We could have 100s of kilometres of protected cycle lanes for the same cost.

As far as the paying "their" way? How would that work?

My 7 year old rides to school some days on a mixture of pavement and road should she be paying?

Think of the logistics of getting people to pay and the return on implementing a system.
A surcharge on a bike? what size bikes? only road bikes or mountain bikes as well?
An annual licence on a bike? On what size bike, kids included? Mountain bikes?

Also the bridge aside, how big are the costs of providing cycling infrastructure. For the most part you simply remove on street parking and put in some paint, maybe some bollards, sure some of the inner city infrastructure is expensive but how much of it is for cyclists and how much for beautification, safety and walkers etc?

If cycling is made safer and more people cycle it reduces the costs for everyone. If 10% of people cycled to work in Auckland (and that would be easily achievable) then the roading costs go down, congestion goes down.

People cite a number of objections as to why cycling can't work in Auckland and most are simply not true.

Too hilly (most of the isthmus is actually pretty flat)
Too wet (I have cycled in almost every day this year and I have been rained on half a doze times at most)
You need to drop the kids off (I cycle in with a three year old on the bike and my 7 year rides or scooters.
Too dangerous (as more people cycle the safer it gets)
Takes to long (my commute is short 4km but it takes between 10 and 15 minutes on a bike and takes between 8 and 40minutes by car)
I can't fit my tools/building supplies/big screen TV on my bike (maybe a bike isn't the best tool for that particular trip but if lots of other people are biking your trip will be quicker)

Simple fact of the matter more people on bikes, public transport, walking, scooters better everyone is even if it doesn't work for your particular usage.

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wellygary

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#2718195 4-Jun-2021 11:53

sir1963:

Motorists also pay additional fees for certain sections of road, the Auckland Harbour Bridge , Mt Maunganui bridge, Northern gateway toll road, etc.

When was the last time you drove in Auckland!!!. 😀.. The bridge has been toll free for nearly 40 years.. Tauranga Bridge has been toll free for 20 years ..

Tolls currently exist on 2 roads in Tauranga and the Northern gateway... and I would expect this to include the new PPP section currently under construction

But in generality yes there are specific tolls for a small number of Roads in NZ

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cokemaster

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#2718196 4-Jun-2021 11:53

sir1963:
cokemaster: Ultimately, yes, cyclists need to contribute towards infrastructure costs that they consume.

Which begs the questions:

How much ?

How is it collected ?

No idea. That’s what the upcoming flamewars are for ;)

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wellygary

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#2718201 4-Jun-2021 11:58

Cyclists will pay ( indirectly)

Most of the NZUP projects are being paid for out of general taxation (the petrol money isn't enough) One of the big components of general tax is GST... we levy GST on food, Food is fuel for cyclists, cyclists eat more food therefore pay more GST than a car driver.. therefore Cyclists will be paying more...😀

Can I go back to sleep now...

Talkiet

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#2718204 4-Jun-2021 12:00

Increase GST on Lycra and coffees.

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shrub

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#2718223 4-Jun-2021 12:49

I have no problem with cyclists using foot paths at jogging pace. If they must be doing 30+km/h on the roads then yes they should be paying for the network.

The main problem I have is when cyclists believe they have more rights than vehicles on state highways. These roads are mostly 100km/h and don't have provisions for safe overtaking or sufficient shoulders for 2 abreast.

Journeyman

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#2718236 4-Jun-2021 12:58

Put toll booths on this silly new cycleway. We'll see how badly cyclists really want their bridge.

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morphyoss

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#2718237 4-Jun-2021 13:01

Simply put the costs to implement such a system will be much more than any revenue it brings in. Does it revolve around a device on a bike on a pay per KM sort of thing, applied at the time of purchase or some other means? Does it apply to seven year olds as mentioned above?

Thus no matter how many people think its good idea, it will never work. Any tax that brings in less revenue than it costs, is ultimately pointless.

If transport is to become a user pays thing, it needs to be that way across the board - tolls, congestion charging etc. Nothing should be funded out of general taxation, including the indirect costs of ACC, healthcare, pollution etc. I dont think that's the way we should operate as a country, but open to ideas!

sir1963

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#2718238 4-Jun-2021 13:01

wellygary:

sir1963:

Motorists also pay additional fees for certain sections of road, the Auckland Harbour Bridge , Mt Maunganui bridge, Northern gateway toll road, etc.

When was the last time you drove in Auckland!!!. 😀.. The bridge has been toll free for nearly 40 years.. Tauranga Bridge has been toll free for 20 years ..

Tolls currently exist on 2 roads in Tauranga and the Northern gateway... and I would expect this to include the new PPP section currently under construction

But in generality yes there are specific tolls for a small number of Roads in NZ

The point was, in spite of road taxes and rates, motorists have been expected to pay even more for some roads.

Do we do the same with the new bridge for cyclists and pedestrians ?

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#2718241 4-Jun-2021 13:05

If they already own a car no.

Should EVs pay fuel tax?

sir1963

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#2718242 4-Jun-2021 13:05

morphyoss:

Simply put the costs to implement such a system will be much more than any revenue it brings in. Does it revolve around a device on a bike on a pay per KM sort of thing, applied at the time of purchase or some other means? Does it apply to seven year olds as mentioned above?

Thus no matter how many people think its good idea, it will never work. Any tax that brings in less revenue than it costs, is ultimately pointless.

If transport is to become a user pays thing, it needs to be that way across the board - tolls, congestion charging etc. Nothing should be funded out of general taxation, including the indirect costs of ACC, healthcare, pollution etc. I dont think that's the way we should operate as a country, but open to ideas!

Number plates on bikes with plate readers. or RFID type tags. The technology is there.

Seven year olds still have to pay for the swimming pool.

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