What will power our vehicles in the future?

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#2767309 27-Aug-2021 08:03

Technofreak:

Don't think these guys have been mentioned yet.

https://www.eviation.co

Eviation’s now basically a sister company to MagniX, after MagniX’s owner - expat kiwi Richard Chandler, took a controlling (70%) stake in Eviation through Clermont Aerospace, the aviation division of his Singapore based Clermont Group.

Roei Ganzarski, CEO of MagniX became the new Chairman at Eviation, and MagniX replaced Siemens as supplier of the electric motors (now magni650 EPU’s) for Alice.

DHL’s recently ordered 12 of their electric aircraft for delivery in 2024, claiming 1,200 kgs cargo capacity, charging time per flight hour of 30 minutes, and range of 815 kms (440 nautical miles).

Promising that sort of performance seems to require a gamble on big, near term improvements in battery technology.. but we have an investor who has a track record making clever, winning market bets, who I’d imagine – with the benefit of advisors - sees a decent chance of success. Definitely one to watch.

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#2767493 27-Aug-2021 11:41

Remember Eviation face exactly the same problems as discussed in the articles I linked about the ES 19.

My initial observations after looking at the provisional performance specs.

Its heavy, weighing 2.3 times of a piston twin that carries the same payload. That means 2.3 times the energy to do the same distance. I'd guess the batteries weigh in excess of 10,000 lbs.
The claimed take off and landing distances seem very optimistic for an aircraft of it's weigh and power.
The stated typical cruise altitude of 10,000 feet seems rather low. This corresponds with the maximum altitude for operating a non pressurised aircraft. Performance increases with altitude and you also get to generally fly above the weather at higher altitudes. Most prop aircraft that are able to, operate at at least the mid teens or low twenties. This leads me to think it's not pressurised.
440 nm max range in this case translates into around 200 nm of practical range. So Auckland - Gisborne or Auckland - Wanganui.
1200 kgs payload isn't all that much freight, hard to see how many routes of 200 nm this would work for.

The DHL order is likely to be like the Cape Air order. Both companies have a mission profile that on paper fit within the capabilities of the EV aircraft therefore are a target of the companies developing the EV aircraft. I suspect there are PR benefits for the airlines to associate themselves with these companies and when it doesn't happen they can say well at least we tried. As I mentioned in another post if Cape Air ends up operating all the EV aircraft they have been linked with they are going to be operating a wide range of aircraft. I see DHL as being in a similar situation.

Let's hope they've overcome what ever caused the fire that destroyed one of their prototypes.

To give some perspective on Eviation and their lack of aviation expertise at least to start with anyway. Their initial design started off with a tailwheel aircraft something that went out of favour, for very good reasons, about 60 years ago. They placed the pusher props on the wingtips, something that has never been done, for good reason. It strikes me as a bunch of kids just fresh out of business school, who want to start something "disruptive" and attract investor's money, rush on the new hype of the electric aircraft.

They have made significant changes to the original design as they've learned the error of their ways. You have to wonder how many more lessons they are yet to learn.

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Azzura

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#2774196 8-Sep-2021 08:30

Toyota has only managed to sell 11,000 units of the Mirai from its launch in November 2014 to February 2021.

Japan may be on road to nowhere with hydrogen vehicles

RobDickinson

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#2774204 8-Sep-2021 08:48

Toyota has suddenly woke up to BEVs and is investing ~$13.5bn in battery plants for 2030.

I wonder how much cash they have sunk into the failed fcev stuff.

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#2775115 9-Sep-2021 10:03

BMW are still exploring the use of hydrogen https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-news/new-2022-bmw-ix5-hydrogen-revealed/

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#2775122 9-Sep-2021 10:16

5 test vehicles to continue distracting and sucking in government fcev funding. Seems like a real solution to the worlds problems /s

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Ge0rge

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#2775138 9-Sep-2021 10:34

Give it a break, mate. You've made it clear you're an EV fanboi, there's probably no real need to keep deriding everything else. Who knows what technological breakthroughs may come as a result of this work?

RobDickinson

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#2775147 9-Sep-2021 10:40

Oh sure, lets carry on with these pointless distractions they've been using to delay sustainable transport for the last 30-40 years.

not like we're in a crisis or anything.

Sidestep

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#2775152 9-Sep-2021 10:47

RobDickinson:

Toyota has suddenly woke up to BEVs and is investing ~$13.5bn in battery plants for 2030.

I wonder how much cash they have sunk into the failed fcev stuff.

Yes - there's nothing wrong with being a fan of EV's but you're deliberately ignoring some of the neat research and development Toyota's put into H2 vehicles.
They haven't exactly abandoned H2.. though they’re directing some of their FCEV on-the-road experience and hydrogen research into more commercial uses.

They’re still going to produce (in 2023) a hydrogen-powered PHEV version of next year’s 5th generation, 1.8-liter Prius gasoline-hybrid - blending their best known auto technologies, plug-in hybrids and hydrogen power.

They’re also planning to launch a hydrogen-powered ICE Corolla in 2023, which might sound weird, but they ran one (based on a Corolla Sport, with a hydrogen injected GR Yaris engine and four fuel tanks containing 7.3 kilograms of hydrogen) in the NAPAC Fuji Super TEC 24 Hour endurance Race in May, powered by green H2 (30% geothermally generated, the rest solar from Toyota’s Miyata Plant in Miyawaka and FH2R in Fukushima).

Those tanks were built by Toyoda Gosei Co., a Toyota group company which is building a new plant to mass-produce the tanks in Inabe, Mie Prefecture (costing ¥12 billion) with a plan to “supply them for commercial vehicles,” according to Toyoda Gosei’s President.

Toyota affiliate Aichi Steel Corp’s special stainless steel they developed (without using costly rare metals) for high-pressure hydrogen Mirai components, is being used in commercial applications.

Denso Corp’s (another Toyota group company and one of the world’s largest auto parts suppliers), high-quality silicon carbide power semiconductors manufactured for the Mirai FCEV - reducing electricity consumption and improving fuel efficiency – are being used both in their new EV vehicles and commercial Fuel Cell range.

Even the air compressor Toyota Industries Corp (who make auto parts and assemble Toyota’s RAV4’s) developed to feed the Mirai’s fuel cell is being re-purposed commercially.

All these products and Toyota’s associated patents are going to help with the manufacturing of fuel cell modules in plants like their massive Georgetown, Kentucky auto-assembly plant (for their new H2 Hino trucks).

Look at it another way and Toyota’s cleverly balancing a mix of powertrain technologies across their lineups - hybrids, plug-in hybrids, fuel cell cars like the Mirai, hydrogen ICE with the Corolla, and EV with their 2022 bZ4X re-entry to the market.

That Battery investment’s sure to be a bet on their long-aspirational solid state battery program..
They’re the world leader in solid-state battery patents, with over 1,000 of them, and (with partner Panasonic through their Prime Planet Energy & Solutions joint venture) have to make a move now, or risk others (CATL, Mercedes, VW, Bosch) beating them to the punch.

The Japanese government's chucking in a ton of research money to help commercialise the battery tech, not wanting to see a repeat of Japan’s 1990’s dominance in lithium-ion batteries being lost to China and South Korea.

RobDickinson

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#2775169 9-Sep-2021 11:00

All a pointless waste of effort and time and distraction.

Dingbatt

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#2775185 9-Sep-2021 11:22

Yes, I guess no-one should ever bother putting “effort and time” into anything then. Like The Wright Brothers, Benz, Brunell, Whittle, etc. Just stick with narrow path orthodoxy.

You champion Musk for disrupting the automotive industry (among others) but decry others trying something different?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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geoffwnz

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#2775189 9-Sep-2021 11:26

RobDickinson:

All a pointless waste of effort and time and distraction.

That's your opinion. You've made it clear. Thanks for your contribution, can you please move on and allow the rest of us to continue having discussions that fit with the topic which is, in part, theorising about various not currently available, partly available, fully available technology options.

At this precise point in time, H2 may not be viable as a mainstream production fuel. As some point in the future it may be. At some point in the future something else may equally be. That may or may not be as a result of research, trials and testing done right now with the fuels and engine options we have available currently.

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Technofreak

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#2775356 9-Sep-2021 14:12

RobDickinson:

Oh sure, lets carry on with these pointless distractions they've been using to delay sustainable transport for the last 30-40 years.

not like we're in a crisis or anything.

Do you mean a crisis like this?

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mkissin

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#2775412 9-Sep-2021 14:20

Al Gore was definitely off in his timelines, but that's about it.

It's undeniable that artic ice is dropping year on year, and the ironic thing is that the ice loss will free up access to vast oil and gas reserves. Yay us!

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/02/ice-melting-arctic-transport-route-industry/

Grunta47

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#2775449 9-Sep-2021 15:15

RobDickinson:

Oh sure, lets carry on with these pointless distractions they've been using to delay sustainable transport for the last 30-40 years.

not like we're in a crisis or anything.

I heard they employed all female engineers, so they can work on more than one thing at a time.

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