Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

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1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2840431 30-Dec-2021 12:42

Obraik:

MikeB4: Capitalism does not produce the best for planet it produces the best path to maximise profit.

Well, isn't it fortunate that hydrogen isn't the winning power source then?

^ That. Ultimately bevs put the control in the hands of the cars owner, no need to go somewhere and buy fuel/energy from someone else.

You can charge at home with your choice of energy provider or install solar (and/or battery system) and charge your car direct from your own electricity.

rjh

57 posts

Master Geek

#2840441 30-Dec-2021 13:15

MikeB4:

It's a shame. Just hang onto it until the infrastructure is in place. There are others testing the hydrogen waters and it is a far better alternative to Battery EV as it provides a vastly better "refuelling" experience.

Friends of ours who charge their EV from their solar panel would disagree. Pretty hard to beat not having to go somewhere you wouldn't otherwise need to go, just to fill your vehicle. Doing it at home while you are gardening would seem to me to be a "vastly better "refuelling" experience".

rjh

57 posts

Master Geek

#2840442 30-Dec-2021 13:16

Obraik:

MikeB4:

It's a shame. Just hang onto it until the infrastructure is in place. There are others testing the hydrogen waters and it is a far better alternative to Battery EV as it provides a vastly better "refuelling" experience.

Sorry mate, it's done.

Honda, Hyundai, Scania, VW, Nissan, etc have all cancelled their hydrogen plans. Battery EV has proven to be the superior successor to the ICE vehicle. No one is building the infrastructure for a dwindling market that barely existed to begin with

Meanwhile, saw an Ioniq5 drive past today...

MikeB4

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#2840452 30-Dec-2021 13:56

Yeah mass uptake of large solar panels on homes along with costly charge points and very costly BEVs is really going to happen. Elitism at its finest.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2840457 30-Dec-2021 14:01

More than 30% of Australian homes now have solar.

We dont because there is very limited support for selling this power back to the grid , coupled with an ~85% renewable grid anyhow. more to do with our rules than solar itself.

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2840459 30-Dec-2021 14:05

MikeB4: Yeah mass uptake of large solar panels on homes along with costly charge points and very costly BEVs is really going to happen. Elitism at its finest.

What on earth makes anything you mentioned "elitism"?

Both solar panels and BEVs especially are dropping in price every year. Take the Model 3 as an example, two years ago it started at around $80k, now it's $60k. It's not going to be long before entry level BEVs are the same price as an entry level ICE - premium BEVs are already basically at an equal price to premium ICE vehicles.

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RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2840460 30-Dec-2021 14:09

Elitist in the same way as iPhones and Satellite TV...

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SomeoneSomewhere

1804 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2840462 30-Dec-2021 14:12

As I said, I don't really think mass update of solar on homes is really ideal - where feasible, commercial properties should be first. Every Pak'N'Save, Countdown, or Warehouse (and plenty of others) should have 100kW+ on the roof.

Charging points are ridiculously expensive due to a combination of stupid rules, minimal competition, and low volumes. Those need to be fixed and it's a regulations issue.

FCEVs are highly unlikely to end up any cheaper than BEVs because the fuel cells are full of precious metals and expensive to make.

When decent mileages are done, BEVs are reasonably priced over the whole life span, but with a large up-front cost. Feebate schemes can improve that, as can financial tools, but the basic answer is that EVs should - for now - only be used where they spend a lot of time on the road.

Rikkitic

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#2840464 30-Dec-2021 14:16

All this raises an interesting question in my mind. Is it possible with current technology to build a foldable solar panel you could take with you on a camping trip, spread it out, and use it to refuel your vehicle? How much acreage would you need? How long would it take?

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MikeB4

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#2840465 30-Dec-2021 14:16

And in the real world large chunks of the population don't own homes and do not have a hope in hell of getting one. Large chunks of the population live in rented accommodation and the terrible attitude of the nations landlords shows they will never pay for the installation of three pin plugs let alone solar panels and EV charge points. Large chunks of the population struggle to buy $10,000 cars so yeah $60,000 is a piece of cake.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2840467 30-Dec-2021 14:19

ok we should ignore all options someone somewhere cant afford right now and cross our fingers hoping for the miracle of the fuel cell.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2840468 30-Dec-2021 14:19

Rikkitic:

All this raises an interesting question in my mind. Is it possible with current technology to build a foldable solar panel you could take with you on a camping trip, spread it out, and use it to refuel your vehicle? How much acreage would you need? How long would it take?

As a rough guide, an EV battery is give-or-take 50kWh, depending on the EV.

Solar panels deliver about 200W/m^2 in good sunlight.

So you need about 250 square-meter-hours for a full charge.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2840470 30-Dec-2021 14:21

MikeB4:

And in the real world large chunks of the population don't own homes and do not have a hope in hell of getting one. Large chunks of the population live in rented accommodation and the terrible attitude of the nations landlords shows they will never pay for the installation of three pin plugs let alone solar panels and EV charge points. Large chunks of the population struggle to buy $10,000 cars so yeah $60,000 is a piece of cake.

Is that an EV problem or a societal problem, though? It's certainly not fixed by more expensive FCEVs. It would be helped by either lower inequality so lower-paying jobs pay more, or improved public transport and urban design so fewer people needed to drive.

MikeB4

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#2840471 30-Dec-2021 14:23

I have just been through the exercise of looking for vehicles for our fleet. The capital outlay for BEVs and charging points, range and down time costs, simply did not add up. I decided on ICE vehicles which is a shame as I have very serious environment concerns but fiscal requirements v environment fell heavily on the side of fiscal requirements. This is reality.

MikeB4

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#2840473 30-Dec-2021 14:25

RobDickinson:

ok we should ignore all options someone somewhere cant afford right now and cross our fingers hoping for the miracle of the fuel cell.

Come on get real.

Edit; forget it. Too much tribalism in this thread to have a realistic conversation. I'm out

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