Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

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#2730196 17-Jun-2021 15:08

Rikkitic:

Why does everyone act like there is a war between cyclists and motorists? Instead of screaming it's all your fault, how about can I help you on your way? The problem really isn't cars or bikes or roads or other transport means. It is mentality and the notion that there is something unreasonable about the other party. Why does it never seem to occur to anyone to just offer to make things easier for the others? Give the cyclists room. Let the motorists past. If everyone does it, things get better. How hard is that?

And I have not said cyclists should be full cost recovery, I have said cyclists should pay something extra, just like motorists do.

MikeB4

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#2730198 17-Jun-2021 15:12

@sir1963 In answer to the quested you put to me. I pay income tax, road tax, GST and a lot of it. That pays for cycle lanes etc. If you think the RUCs fund the roads you are very mistaken. I won't respond to the rest of your post as your mind is closed.

Rikkitic

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#2730202 17-Jun-2021 15:18

sir1963:

And I have not said cyclists should be full cost recovery, I have said cyclists should pay something extra, just like motorists do.

And I say why does this matter so much to you? Should I count every step your disabled son takes to make sure he doesn't use more than his fair share of pavement? Who cares what cyclists pay? I don't. There aren't that many of them anyway, so what does it matter if they get a few cents from the taxpayer? Do you take a measuring tape everywhere you go? It just seems a rather silly argument to me.

Edit: Actually, I enjoy giving things to people and I don't understand why others don't. Sometimes I put food in the supermarket collection bin and try to imagine the pleasure the recipients get when they see it. I try to pick things that are not likely to be given by most people. Just because someone is poor, doesn't mean they can't enjoy an unexpected luxury.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

sir1963

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#2730210 17-Jun-2021 15:44

MikeB4:

@sir1963 In answer to the quested you put to me. I pay income tax, road tax, GST and a lot of it. That pays for cycle lanes etc. If you think the RUCs fund the roads you are very mistaken. I won't respond to the rest of your post as your mind is closed.

The rules/laws got changed so that Fuel/RUC goes to roading, it is no longer grabbed to be put into the general coffers.

Handsomedan

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#2730211 17-Jun-2021 15:47

Rikkitic:

Why does everyone act like there is a war between cyclists and motorists? Instead of screaming it's all your fault, how about can I help you on your way? The problem really isn't cars or bikes or roads or other transport means. It is mentality and the notion that there is something unreasonable about the other party. Why does it never seem to occur to anyone to just offer to make things easier for the others? Give the cyclists room. Let the motorists past. If everyone does it, things get better. How hard is that?

Can you please stop being so bloody reasonable?

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sir1963

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#2730215 17-Jun-2021 16:09

Rikkitic:

sir1963:

And I have not said cyclists should be full cost recovery, I have said cyclists should pay something extra, just like motorists do.

And I say why does this matter so much to you? Should I count every step your disabled son takes to make sure he doesn't use more than his fair share of pavement? Who cares what cyclists pay? I don't. There aren't that many of them anyway, so what does it matter if they get a few cents from the taxpayer? Do you take a measuring tape everywhere you go? It just seems a rather silly argument to me.

Edit: Actually, I enjoy giving things to people and I don't understand why others don't. Sometimes I put food in the supermarket collection bin and try to imagine the pleasure the recipients get when they see it. I try to pick things that are not likely to be given by most people. Just because someone is poor, doesn't mean they can't enjoy an unexpected luxury.

Christchurch spent $330 Million on cycle lanes ie about $1000 for every man, woman and child in Christchurch.

This is not a "few cents"

The proposed bridge is over $800 Million, add on the other cycle lane expenses and again you are looking at $1000 for every man, woman and child in Auckland.

Again, not a "few cents".

I would be happy to get my $1000 back, that would pay for about 7-10 years swimming for me. And I don't see any cyclists rushing to pay that for me.

So how much extra rates are you willing to pay so people can swim for free ?

Or go to the ASB tennis for free ?

Go to concerts for free, or sporting fixtures for free ?

Weetbix kids triathlon is expensive, there is a good cause for your rates to pay for, they even use bikes.

There is nothing sacrosanct about cyclists, they can and should help pay.

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#2730222 17-Jun-2021 16:34

sir1963:

Christchurch spent $330 Million on cycle lanes ie about $1000 for every man, woman and child in Christchurch.

This is not a "few cents"

The proposed bridge is over $800 Million, add on the other cycle lane expenses and again you are looking at $1000 for every man, woman and child in Auckland.

Again, not a "few cents".

I would be happy to get my $1000 back, that would pay for about 7-10 years swimming for me. And I don't see any cyclists rushing to pay that for me.

So how much extra rates are you willing to pay so people can swim for free ?

Or go to the ASB tennis for free ?

Go to concerts for free, or sporting fixtures for free ?

Weetbix kids triathlon is expensive, there is a good cause for your rates to pay for, they even use bikes.

There is nothing sacrosanct about cyclists, they can and should help pay.

You don't cost infrastructure solely on the present.

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1101

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#2730224 17-Jun-2021 16:36

sir1963:

The proposed bridge is over $800 Million, add on the other cycle lane expenses and again you are looking at $1000 for every man, woman and child in Auckland.

I'd really like that to be broken down to cost per cyclist who will actually use it , in Winter , to get to work.

I think that cost per cyclist would be the real shocker . Might be cheaper to just pay them to use the bus instead .

I have a bike. Im not antibike .

Rikkitic

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#2730225 17-Jun-2021 16:38

Take a breath. The cost of cycle lanes does not equate to the cost to taxpayers. You would not get a refund if all cycle lanes were abandoned. In fact, you would probably have to pay more for the cars.

I'm not arguing about the bridge. I think it is a dumb idea.

Maybe if you swim to work, you can claim it back from your taxes.

Tennis, concerts and sports matches are recreational. Why conflate these with commuter cycling?

The kids triathlon is a good cause. Just pay for it. Who cares if it includes cycling or not?

This has descended into a silly discussion. I am out of here.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#2730230 17-Jun-2021 16:46

1101:

"I'd really like that to be broken down to cost per cyclist who will actually use it , in Winter , to get to work.

"I think that cost per cyclist would be the real shocker . Might be cheaper to just pay them to use the bus instead."

Who cares? Get over it.

I have a bike. I'm not antibike .

"I have a black cleaning person . I'm not prejudiced."

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2730254 17-Jun-2021 16:55

1101:

sir1963:

The proposed bridge is over $800 Million, add on the other cycle lane expenses and again you are looking at $1000 for every man, woman and child in Auckland.

I'd really like that to be broken down to cost per cyclist who will actually use it , in Winter , to get to work.

I think that cost per cyclist would be the real shocker . Might be cheaper to just pay them to use the bus instead .

I have a bike. Im not antibike .

Why would we only look at in winter?

I suspect we would be looking at well over a thousand bikes a day most weekdays - those figures are very pessimistic. Petone to Ngauranga gets 400/day despite a smaller population, abysmal route, and abysmal weather.

I'm not sure why we seem to think cyclists contribute nothing to the economy. If we consider that, then any commuter also contributes 'nothing' unless they are a courier/truck/tradie - why would we build a new/larger road if we can just ban private vehicles from an existing one? Or, we could consider what it would cost to provide those extra thousand-ish crossings per day in terms of another car bridge - not cheap.

But I agree that this project seems poorly thought-out. The fact that we don't appear to even have estimates on how many people would use it, or what the feasibility/benefits/costs of alternate options (lane closure on the bridge, better bike support on buses etc.) is, shows that this is a very quick-and-dirty proposal.

mattwnz

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#2730261 17-Jun-2021 17:04

sir1963:

Rikkitic:

And I say why does this matter so much to you? Should I count every step your disabled son takes to make sure he doesn't use more than his fair share of pavement? Who cares what cyclists pay? I don't. There aren't that many of them anyway, so what does it matter if they get a few cents from the taxpayer? Do you take a measuring tape everywhere you go? It just seems a rather silly argument to me.

Edit: Actually, I enjoy giving things to people and I don't understand why others don't. Sometimes I put food in the supermarket collection bin and try to imagine the pleasure the recipients get when they see it. I try to pick things that are not likely to be given by most people. Just because someone is poor, doesn't mean they can't enjoy an unexpected luxury.

Christchurch spent $330 Million on cycle lanes ie about $1000 for every man, woman and child in Christchurch.

This is not a "few cents"

The proposed bridge is over $800 Million, add on the other cycle lane expenses and again you are looking at $1000 for every man, woman and child in Auckland.

Again, not a "few cents".

I would be happy to get my $1000 back, that would pay for about 7-10 years swimming for me. And I don't see any cyclists rushing to pay that for me.

So how much extra rates are you willing to pay so people can swim for free ?

Or go to the ASB tennis for free ?

Go to concerts for free, or sporting fixtures for free ?

Weetbix kids triathlon is expensive, there is a good cause for your rates to pay for, they even use bikes.

There is nothing sacrosanct about cyclists, they can and should help pay.

No doubt they are borrowing the money, so it is future rate payers that will be paying it off over many years.

To put it in perspective. NZ printed $100,000,000,000 due to Covid, which is $20,000 per person!. This has helped increase house prices in NZ by 1/4 of a trillion dollars, and means a first home buyer buying an average house in NZ now needs to get into debt by $200,000 more for the same house, than they did a year ago. I think NZ has bigger problems around money.

jfanning

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#2730296 17-Jun-2021 17:33

sir1963:

Show me where you pay for cycleways.

Roading - Invercargill City Council (icc.govt.nz)

One of the lines of the ICC Rates is targeting Roading, according to the council the roading assets include footpaths and cycle ways as well as roads. 1 + 1 = I pay for cycle paths.

tdgeek

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#2730316 17-Jun-2021 17:53

sxz:

Next OP will want pedestrians to pay a footpath user tax.

I was about to suggest that.

tdgeek

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#2730319 17-Jun-2021 17:55

sir1963:

1. Motorists pay about $4 Billion is fuel and RUC taxes.

2. The facts that you pay for one thing does not entitle you to something else for free (ie you pay for roads while you use it.)

3. It is NOT just the damage. It is the cost to build.

4. I regularly see cyclists going through red lights, cycling at night with no lights, riding on the footpath, etc etc.

5. Swimming is also good for your health, pools costs rate payers, swimmers have to pay an entrance fee. So just paying rates is not enough.

6. 100% of the NZ economy ultimately relies on motor vehicles, as does emergency services. You even need trucks to build cycle paths.

7. Electric cars/bikes rely on rare earth minerals, there are some very big holes in the ground to extract them. Same for materials used to build bikes.

8. I am amused by cyclists who do not believe that they should pay anything extra for cycleways that benefit them, makes it safer, quicker, easier. And paying $1 a day is just way too much.

9. Other significant infrastructure projects (Labour bridge, Mt Maunganui Bridge, Norther express tunnel) charge(d) users on top of all the other taxes motorists pay.

10. The Dutch, at best, 35% of people cycle and their cities are more compact, flat, have historically narrow roads. Some houses need to use the canals to ship furniture into them. NZ has less than 2% cyclists.

11. Another Billion put into the rail system would serve more people, you could even have a bike friendly carriage for cyclists from further out of town.

12. Electronic metering is cheap and easy, its pretty much just the same as using a sign on/sign off bus pass.

13. Everyone ultimately uses footpaths during their week, they are critical to commerce, just ask those impacted by the Auckland rail disruption on Victoria, they are wanting $50 Million + in compensation

14. No one is talking about taxing children, that is just cyclists hysteria , same with playgrounds, etc etc etc etc. (shame on people using kids this way).

15. The options are not just 100% user pays/ or user pays $0, there is a big area in between, how about cyclists pay something ? Would a safe cycle bridge not be worth $1 each way ?

16. This is NOT a hate cyclists campaign, again emotive BS to justify paying $0.

17. NONE of this means motor vehicles do not need to go electric, but this will take time, and even then we will STILL need vehicles that burn some kind of fuel.

18. The BS about how altruistic cyclists are to motorists is just that BS. Should cyclists pay me when I walk ?, no. I ride share, and use public transport mostly, and pay something for both.

Seems a bit obsessive.

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