New Tyres. Front or the Back? FWD Car

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Jase2985

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#1547002 5-May-2016 09:02

geoffwnz:

Goes against pretty much everything I do on the race car. Best tyres on the front always as they are doing most of the work. That's for the tarmac or gravel tyres. On gravel, particularly the ones with the best edges to aid steering.

The only reason I'd rotate the most worn tyres to the front of a FWD car would be to wear them out faster to save the rears for longer.

If, as the Bridgestone poster suggests, the reason is to have more grip at the rear for when you lose control, then I might suggest that you either get driving lessons, or join a motorsport club and learn how to properly control a car. If you're achieving oversteer in a FWD, you're either trying *really* hard or doing something *very* wrong.

or not driving to the conditions

geoffwnz

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#1547009 5-May-2016 09:12

Jase2985:

geoffwnz:

Goes against pretty much everything I do on the race car. Best tyres on the front always as they are doing most of the work. That's for the tarmac or gravel tyres. On gravel, particularly the ones with the best edges to aid steering.

The only reason I'd rotate the most worn tyres to the front of a FWD car would be to wear them out faster to save the rears for longer.

If, as the Bridgestone poster suggests, the reason is to have more grip at the rear for when you lose control, then I might suggest that you either get driving lessons, or join a motorsport club and learn how to properly control a car. If you're achieving oversteer in a FWD, you're either trying *really* hard or doing something *very* wrong.

or not driving to the conditions

That's covered by "doing something *very* wrong".

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geoffwnz

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#1547010 5-May-2016 09:16

tdgeek:

geoffwnz:

Goes against pretty much everything I do on the race car. Best tyres on the front always as they are doing most of the work. That's for the tarmac or gravel tyres. On gravel, particularly the ones with the best edges to aid steering.

The only reason I'd rotate the most worn tyres to the front of a FWD car would be to wear them out faster to save the rears for longer.

If, as the Bridgestone poster suggests, the reason is to have more grip at the rear for when you lose control, then I might suggest that you either get driving lessons, or join a motorsport club and learn how to properly control a car. If you're achieving oversteer in a FWD, you're either trying *really* hard or doing something *very* wrong.

This is about civvy driving not motorsport. You can achieve better laptimes if you have a car slightly favouring front end grip, at the expense of swapping ends. But civvy drivers dont setup wings and suspension to maximise laptimes or corner speed. Should a civvy go round a bend too fast, or its wet, an understeer by way of better rear tyres is a safer option, as it will just wash off the road, and get some control back as it slows. Well, if its wet grass or a ditch, maybe not!

Race car is AWD.

Road car is FWD. The only reason it tends to end up with better tyres on the rear is because the fronts wear out faster after changing all 4 at the same time. The only time I can recall getting oversteer out of the "mighty" corolla was due to application of handbrake in order to get the car to turn in that snow dumping we had a few years back.

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#1547034 5-May-2016 10:25

I was a strong proponent for new tyres in the front in the grand thread what 2-3 years ago on GZ, and was proven wrong by all research that was produced.

Best tyres in the back to cover the lowest common denominator and/or the worst case scenario.

I can tell you the following week (I put my new tyres on the front) it was a wet day and I tested the theory and completely lost the back - most unforgiving set or rears I've ever owned! - when pushed like a mad man [aka Clarkson]. (old AWD car, no ESP)

So to cover the worst case scenario, best tyres in the back. But as someone said not everyone buys insurance, not everyone believes in worst case scenario.

1eStar

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#1547083 5-May-2016 11:40

If you're the sort of person that buys black round rubber because the old ones are bald, stick the new ones on the back.

If you are a person who manages your tyres on your vehicle with regular rotations, put them where you like.

If you drive an AWD, try to have four the same at around the same tread wear, which requires management obviously

CitizenErased

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#1547088 5-May-2016 11:49

If people rotated their tyres at every scheduled service like they should do, they'd always have four tyres with more or less the same tread depth. That's what I do and you get a far longer lifespan from your tyres (along with keeping tyre pressures and wheel alignment in check).

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#1547097 5-May-2016 12:05

geoffwnz:

tdgeek:

geoffwnz:

Goes against pretty much everything I do on the race car. Best tyres on the front always as they are doing most of the work. That's for the tarmac or gravel tyres. On gravel, particularly the ones with the best edges to aid steering.

The only reason I'd rotate the most worn tyres to the front of a FWD car would be to wear them out faster to save the rears for longer.

If, as the Bridgestone poster suggests, the reason is to have more grip at the rear for when you lose control, then I might suggest that you either get driving lessons, or join a motorsport club and learn how to properly control a car. If you're achieving oversteer in a FWD, you're either trying *really* hard or doing something *very* wrong.

This is about civvy driving not motorsport. You can achieve better laptimes if you have a car slightly favouring front end grip, at the expense of swapping ends. But civvy drivers dont setup wings and suspension to maximise laptimes or corner speed. Should a civvy go round a bend too fast, or its wet, an understeer by way of better rear tyres is a safer option, as it will just wash off the road, and get some control back as it slows. Well, if its wet grass or a ditch, maybe not!

Race car is AWD.

Road car is FWD. The only reason it tends to end up with better tyres on the rear is because the fronts wear out faster after changing all 4 at the same time. The only time I can recall getting oversteer out of the "mighty" corolla was due to application of handbrake in order to get the car to turn in that snow dumping we had a few years back.

Just to add not all tyres are the same

Some are good in wet, some ok, some hopeless.

Some lose grip progressively eg squealing in the first 10-20%, then a bit of sliding but controllable, and the cheap crap give you zero warning one moment you're going happily sweet and dandy and suddenly the world around you spins like a roller coaster before you can say s^%$.

geoffwnz

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#1547177 5-May-2016 13:09

joker97:

geoffwnz:

tdgeek:

geoffwnz:

Goes against pretty much everything I do on the race car. Best tyres on the front always as they are doing most of the work. That's for the tarmac or gravel tyres. On gravel, particularly the ones with the best edges to aid steering.

The only reason I'd rotate the most worn tyres to the front of a FWD car would be to wear them out faster to save the rears for longer.

If, as the Bridgestone poster suggests, the reason is to have more grip at the rear for when you lose control, then I might suggest that you either get driving lessons, or join a motorsport club and learn how to properly control a car. If you're achieving oversteer in a FWD, you're either trying *really* hard or doing something *very* wrong.

This is about civvy driving not motorsport. You can achieve better laptimes if you have a car slightly favouring front end grip, at the expense of swapping ends. But civvy drivers dont setup wings and suspension to maximise laptimes or corner speed. Should a civvy go round a bend too fast, or its wet, an understeer by way of better rear tyres is a safer option, as it will just wash off the road, and get some control back as it slows. Well, if its wet grass or a ditch, maybe not!

Race car is AWD.

Road car is FWD. The only reason it tends to end up with better tyres on the rear is because the fronts wear out faster after changing all 4 at the same time. The only time I can recall getting oversteer out of the "mighty" corolla was due to application of handbrake in order to get the car to turn in that snow dumping we had a few years back.

Just to add not all tyres are the same

Some are good in wet, some ok, some hopeless.

Some lose grip progressively eg squealing in the first 10-20%, then a bit of sliding but controllable, and the cheap crap give you zero warning one moment you're going happily sweet and dandy and suddenly the world around you spins like a roller coaster before you can say s^%$.

Agreed. Running SuperCats on the Corolla. I think they fall some way below "hopeless" in the wet. Other than getting wheelspin when I'm being too optimistic at traffic lights, no major dramas from driving within their limits.

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MikeAqua

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#1547180 5-May-2016 13:12

My thoughts exactly. I always put the newest tyres on the front wheels, regardless of the vehicle.

Front wheels do the steering and the lion's share of the braking.

On a front wheel drive you can use front wheel grip to get you out trouble.

My local firestone have never suggested putting the new tyres on the back. They always put the new tyres on the front.

djtOtago:

My 2 cents.
1) If you can't control the front wheels, you can't control the back.
2) As most cars now have some form of stability control it really doesn't make any difference.

Mike

richms

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#1547210 5-May-2016 14:35

I've got supercats on the falcon since it's jelly suspension means that it can't corner anyway.

I can't drive uphill from the glenfield mall exit if it's wet. Just spin spin spin and no move. Useless tires

Richard rich.ms

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#1547277 5-May-2016 17:27

MikeAqua:
My thoughts exactly. I always put the newest tyres on the front wheels, regardless of the vehicle.

Front wheels do the steering and the lion's share of the braking.

On a front wheel drive you can use front wheel grip to get you out trouble.

My local firestone have never suggested putting the new tyres on the back. They always put the new tyres on the front.

djtOtago:

My 2 cents.
1) If you can't control the front wheels, you can't control the back.
2) As most cars now have some form of stability control it really doesn't make any difference.

If your local Firestone is not putting a new one at the back - then it is not because it is the company policy. Tony, Bridgestone and Firestone are owned by the same company and all of them therefore have the same policy. New at the back.

Those who really think they know and can justify new tyres at the front - you are wrong. "Experience" means nothing if it is not backed up scientifically.

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Jase2985

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#1547280 5-May-2016 17:34

nakedmolerat:

If your local Firestone is not putting a new one at the back - then it is not because it is the company policy. Tony, Bridgestone and Firestone are owned by the same company and all of them therefore have the same policy. New at the back.

Those who really think they know and can justify new tyres at the front - you are wrong. "Experience" means nothing if it is not backed up scientifically.

where is this evidence you speak of?

Scott3

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#1547348 5-May-2016 21:15

MikeAqua:

My thoughts exactly. I always put the newest tyres on the front wheels, regardless of the vehicle.

Front wheels do the steering and the lion's share of the braking.

On a front wheel drive you can use front wheel grip to get you out trouble.

My local firestone have never suggested putting the new tyres on the back. They always put the new tyres on the front.

Don't follow this advice.

Most road cars are set up to understeer for a reason. Putting vastly better tires on the front can mess this design up, and cause them to over-steer.

It is much easier to regain control from an under-steer slide than an over-steer one.

I did one of those skid control causes, without stability control you have the tiniest instant to save a car from over-steer. If you miss your 1/2 second opportunity, and you start to spin, you are pritty much screwed, until the car comes to a stop. Nauseating on a skid pad, fatal on the road when you end up sideways in he opposite lane with a truck bearing down on you.

With under-steer, you feel the tires let go on the steering, instinctively you will lift off the accelerator. You have heaps more time to save it cos if you do nothing the car keeps going straight. Even if you do nothing hopefully the car has slowed enough to grip again before you leave your lane.

Here's a you-tube video from 2009 [URL=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSz7cm6MwH0]

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#1547376 5-May-2016 22:46

Scott3:

MikeAqua:

My thoughts exactly. I always put the newest tyres on the front wheels, regardless of the vehicle.

Front wheels do the steering and the lion's share of the braking.

On a front wheel drive you can use front wheel grip to get you out trouble.

My local firestone have never suggested putting the new tyres on the back. They always put the new tyres on the front.

Don't follow this advice.

Most road cars are set up to understeer for a reason. Putting vastly better tires on the front can mess this design up, and cause them to over-steer.

It is much easier to regain control from an under-steer slide than an over-steer one.

I did one of those skid control causes, without stability control you have the tiniest instant to save a car from over-steer. If you miss your 1/2 second opportunity, and you start to spin, you are pritty much screwed, until the car comes to a stop. Nauseating on a skid pad, fatal on the road when you end up sideways in he opposite lane with a truck bearing down on you.

With under-steer, you feel the tires let go on the steering, instinctively you will lift off the accelerator. You have heaps more time to save it cos if you do nothing the car keeps going straight. Even if you do nothing hopefully the car has slowed enough to grip again before you leave your lane.

Here's a you-tube video from 2009 [URL=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSz7cm6MwH0]

I personally tested out this problem and yes if the rear goes, it goes.

Even in an AWD

Of course it doesn't go 99% of the time, only when you mess up bad.

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#1548460 9-May-2016 06:47

This is one of those areas that seem to divide a forum community. In years gone by the wisdom was to have the best on the front for a FWD as they did most work, however since then the wisdom has been to put the best on the rear as Joe Bloggs can better control understeer rather than oversteer.

I rarely let me tyres get worn unevenly so I usually replace 4 at a time and rotate regularly, that said I had a puncture recently on a rear and only replaced those (RWD car)

Generally tyre places will rotate new tyres to the rear as recommended by most tyre companies and the AA.

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