New Tyres. Front or the Back? FWD Car

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WyleECoyoteNZ

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#195798 4-May-2016 19:12

Firstly, this isn't a thread to decide what tyre to put on, it's where to put it.

Unfortunately, the left rear tyre has picked up a large nail, punctured the tyre and damaged the inside of the sidewall of the tyre, meaning the puncture can't be repaired and the tyre has to be junked.

The car is a Holden Cruze Hatch, Front Wheel drive. Owned since about Sep 2015.

The tyres are Goodyear Efficentgrip's on all corners, all well within tread depths, some more so than others. The front right looks nearly new, with the front left still in very good condition, but less depth than the front right. The right rear is very similar depth to the front left.

There is a Bridgestone bulletin on the wall of my local garage which says, from the tyre company, which says it is best to have the best tyres on the back even on a front driven car. Reason being that if somehow you have lost control and somehow gone from understeer to oversteer it is better to have more grip available at the rear.

Normally, I'd have the best tyres on the front, as they take more of the work\load.

However, this bulletin suggests\advises it's best to have the better tyres on the rear.

I'm not interested in debating the new front to back argument, I'm interested in where people would have the better tyres?

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#1546806 4-May-2016 19:17

AA recommend best tread to the rear, this from 2008

http://www.aa.co.nz/cars/ask-an-expert/faults-reliability-service-and-repair/show/710/

Jase2985

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#1546810 4-May-2016 19:21

AA says rear too

Personally its up to you, if you will feel safer with them on the front do that.

jamesrt

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#1546818 4-May-2016 19:37

Went to Firestone to have two new tyres fitted to replace worn front ones; they rotated rear tyres to front and fitted new ones at rear.

Company policy, I was told.

sbiddle

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#1546867 4-May-2016 21:33

There have been a few identical discussions on here over the years.

Don't expect any tyre retailer to put new tyres on the front of a car. You'll find it's policy everywhere only to put them on the back and this is accepted best practice these days.

Does everybody agree on this? No they don't.

jarledb

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#1546870 4-May-2016 21:39

I think the thinking of AA and the tyre manufacturers sound like it has some merit. Know I will be adding new tyres to the read of my FWD based on their recommendation. (Link was shared by WyleECoyoteNZ a little earlier in the thread).

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insane

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#1546876 4-May-2016 22:01

Can only imagine the advise is based on averages. Every car behaves differently so it would be too hard to create a huge matrix to say what is best for each in various driving conditions. Would also be interesting to know if any insurance companies have clauses on this is their policies?

From a practical point of view I don't personally understand why they still prefer to suggest the rear for FWD cars when most of the breaking force, all acceleration and all steering goes via the front tyres. FWD cars are renowned for under-steering and anyone who knows how to perform a good lift off over-steer on a FWD car probably isn't skimping on rubber. Perhaps it's because under-steering is more likely to leave you embarrassed in a ditch off the side of the road, and not spun around in traffic looking cool with your new front tyres :)

Also easily solved by just not running on worm or cheap rubber...

djtOtago

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#1546878 4-May-2016 22:07

My 2 cents.
1) If you can't control the front wheels, you can't control the back.
2) As most cars now have some form of stability control it really doesn't make any difference.

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richms

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#1546912 4-May-2016 23:06

insane:

Can only imagine the advise is based on averages. Every car behaves differently so it would be too hard to create a huge matrix to say what is best for each in various driving conditions. Would also be interesting to know if any insurance companies have clauses on this is their policies?

From a practical point of view I don't personally understand why they still prefer to suggest the rear for FWD cars when most of the breaking force, all acceleration and all steering goes via the front tyres. FWD cars are renowned for under-steering and anyone who knows how to perform a good lift off over-steer on a FWD car probably isn't skimping on rubber. Perhaps it's because under-steering is more likely to leave you embarrassed in a ditch off the side of the road, and not spun around in traffic looking cool with your new front tyres :)

Also easily solved by just not running on worm or cheap rubber...

Because when the back lets go, most shopping cart drivers have no idea what to do and go sideways into a ditch or something. If you regually get the back letting go because you drive with enthusiasm and can handle it then I dont think it would be such an issue. I saw one girl lose it a bit and end up sideways across the road and their first instint was to cover the mouth with their hands instead of moving the car. That is the calibre of driver that the advice is aimed at.

Richard rich.ms

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#1546923 4-May-2016 23:41

I ended up with my last new set on the front. You know, those nice eco-friendly tyres that are meant to be middle of the road noise with good..ish performance for cheapcheap.

The catch, they're not all 100% rubber. Took off from the shop (only a lil mazda 2Lt NA pocket rocket!). Proceeded to do a unintentional stationary burnout taking off at the lights and have a not so nice turning experience until they wore down a bit (lonnng time) :) I'm guessing thats why they also don't now :D

richms

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#1546926 4-May-2016 23:49

I think the other ingredient in those eco tires is teflon based on how a prius I had the misfortune of having the use of handled. Get one of those sliding and people really look at you funny.

Richard rich.ms

tdgeek

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#1546938 5-May-2016 06:18

insane:

Can only imagine the advise is based on averages. Every car behaves differently so it would be too hard to create a huge matrix to say what is best for each in various driving conditions. Would also be interesting to know if any insurance companies have clauses on this is their policies?

From a practical point of view I don't personally understand why they still prefer to suggest the rear for FWD cars when most of the breaking force, all acceleration and all steering goes via the front tyres. FWD cars are renowned for under-steering and anyone who knows how to perform a good lift off over-steer on a FWD car probably isn't skimping on rubber. Perhaps it's because under-steering is more likely to leave you embarrassed in a ditch off the side of the road, and not spun around in traffic looking cool with your new front tyres :)

Also easily solved by just not running on worm or cheap rubber...

Thats how I see it. If a car understeers, it was just wash off the road. Front tyres losing grip, and rear tyres with more grip, there is an element of control. An oversteer will spin out, as the front has better grip than the rear, no control. Once the rear lets go, thats it. Understeer is safer, so best tyres on the rear.

nakedmolerat

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#1546951 5-May-2016 07:33

This has been tested in the court with experts being called for evidence.

Tyres with better thread should always be at the back-it doesn't matter whether it is all wheel drive, front wheel drive etc.

I usually bought all 4 tyres but one of my little car, the tyres are brand new and I buggered one of them driving flat. I replaced it two brand new at the back. Then I had it serviced at the dealer (Ford) two months later.

They took the liberty of swapping the tyres to the front. I didn't realize this until I almost lose control when it rains. After 2-3x with losing control issue, I decided to recheck the tire pressure (pressure is fine) and then realized that the tyres have been swapped. I'm too lazy to get it swapped back again as this is not the main car. I just go real slow when it rains.

timmmay

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#1546967 5-May-2016 08:05

Tyres on the rear was the conclusion of a big thread a while back, Tony's do it as policy, so do other tyre places apparently, and from memory there was a govt dept or similar which recommended the same thing. I can't find the thread now, but I haven't looked carefully.

Not long after I had new tyres put on my car it had to have an alignment down in Turangi. That cowboy swapped the new tyres onto the front and I never bothered to do anything about it - all are fine.

geoffwnz

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#1546994 5-May-2016 08:53

Goes against pretty much everything I do on the race car. Best tyres on the front always as they are doing most of the work. That's for the tarmac or gravel tyres. On gravel, particularly the ones with the best edges to aid steering.

The only reason I'd rotate the most worn tyres to the front of a FWD car would be to wear them out faster to save the rears for longer.

If, as the Bridgestone poster suggests, the reason is to have more grip at the rear for when you lose control, then I might suggest that you either get driving lessons, or join a motorsport club and learn how to properly control a car. If you're achieving oversteer in a FWD, you're either trying *really* hard or doing something *very* wrong.

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#1547000 5-May-2016 09:01

geoffwnz:

Goes against pretty much everything I do on the race car. Best tyres on the front always as they are doing most of the work. That's for the tarmac or gravel tyres. On gravel, particularly the ones with the best edges to aid steering.

The only reason I'd rotate the most worn tyres to the front of a FWD car would be to wear them out faster to save the rears for longer.

If, as the Bridgestone poster suggests, the reason is to have more grip at the rear for when you lose control, then I might suggest that you either get driving lessons, or join a motorsport club and learn how to properly control a car. If you're achieving oversteer in a FWD, you're either trying *really* hard or doing something *very* wrong.

This is about civvy driving not motorsport. You can achieve better laptimes if you have a car slightly favouring front end grip, at the expense of swapping ends. But civvy drivers dont setup wings and suspension to maximise laptimes or corner speed. Should a civvy go round a bend too fast, or its wet, an understeer by way of better rear tyres is a safer option, as it will just wash off the road, and get some control back as it slows. Well, if its wet grass or a ditch, maybe not!

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