Eight- (or seven-) seater cars – thoughts and recommendations

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#1589409 11-Jul-2016 09:13

We have a 2010 Premacy, while the 3rd row seats can be used by adults, I wouldnt want to for a decent road trip as there isn't a huge amount of leg room. FOr short hops across town you'll manage but thats it. For younger kids theyre ok.

Otherwise, the Premacy is a good vehicle (So far - owned since Nov last year) - great fuel consumption :)

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jonathan18

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#1589543 11-Jul-2016 11:27

Options with full lap/sash seat-belts

Can anyone confirm which cars/SUVs/vans with seven or eight seats (whatever the size of the third row) and within the requirements (budget $20k; => 2007; =<100k km) have full lap and sash seatbelts for the middle seat(s)? Of all the options I've looked at thus far, only one does - the Mitsubishi Outlander.

While the Outlander clearly has a "5+2" arrangement, this has to be compared to the risks inherent in using a car with some lap belts on the open road - something I'd like to avoid. So, at some level it's trading off safety over space. Even the 2013 Kia Carnivals linked to above have only lap belts, which makes this (from a safety perspective) only a six-seater on the open road.

Or does the quantity of other safety gear on the Carnivals (10 air bags, stability control, more modern and therefore assuming safer vehicle overall) compensate adequately for the use of lap belts? I'm imagining many of these features may reduce the chances of a crash (eg ESC), but once it occurs those lap belts will still possibly to do a decent amount of damage to their users...

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#1589597 11-Jul-2016 12:35

joker97:

Scott3:

Do you actually own a 7 seater?

- How is a gap in the middle going to allow anyone to "walk through"? It's not a bus. The passengers occupying the middle row still have to get off, no?

We had a Toyota Previa variant with a walk-through middle row (two captain's chairs). It does make it much easier to get in and out of the back row. Back row passengers are first in and last out.

But it costs you a seat so it becomes a maximum seven seater.

Mike

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#1589946 11-Jul-2016 21:32

jonathan18:

Options with full lap/sash seat-belts

Can anyone confirm which cars/SUVs/vans with seven or eight seats (whatever the size of the third row) and within the requirements (budget $20k; => 2007; =<100k km) have full lap and sash seatbelts for the middle seat(s)?

I think it shouldn't be too hard to find such vehicles:

Dodge Journey: fits requirements, 7x lap/sash seat-belts.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/dodge/auction-1113983075.htm

Hyundai H1 (the old imax): misses requirements (2008 $21k, 160,000km), but has 8x lap/sash seatbelts

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/hyundai/auction-1080215476.htm

Toyota Previa: Fits requirements, 8x Lap/Sash seatbelts

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/toyota/auction-1121643279.htm

Given your requirements I think the big diesel vans (imax etc), are probably overkill sounds like you have no need to carry 8 People and 5+ large suitcases at the same time. Sounds like for your running you won't pay off the higher fixed costs of a diesel engine (Rego + Servicing), with fuel savings.

The Dodge looks nice, but Fiat/Crysler/Dodge consistently come in at the bottom of reliability metrics, so that would put me off that one.

How would that Previa look? The Previa/Estima must be the most common minivan in NZ, and seem to be the favorite of the taxi fleets, so must be fairly reliable / cheap to run.

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#1590050 12-Jul-2016 07:30

jonathan18:

Or does the quantity of other safety gear on the Carnivals (10 air bags, stability control, more modern and therefore assuming safer vehicle overall) compensate adequately for the use of lap belts?

It's a very interesting point you've raised here, and in my view the answer is no. My policy is for all passengers in my vehicle to be secured with three-point belts at all times and I'm surprised that these people movers would still have lap only belts in certain seating positions.

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#1590090 12-Jul-2016 08:15

alasta:

jonathan18:

Or does the quantity of other safety gear on the Carnivals (10 air bags, stability control, more modern and therefore assuming safer vehicle overall) compensate adequately for the use of lap belts?

It's a very interesting point you've raised here, and in my view the answer is no. My policy is for all passengers in my vehicle to be secured with three-point belts at all times and I'm surprised that these people movers would still have lap only belts in certain seating positions.

I'm in agreement with you here; I avoid carrying more than six people in my father's van to avoid having to use those "belts of death".

My father is currently taken by the idea of getting a relatively new vehicle that's still covered by warranty (ie the Kia Carnival), but I see this problem as limiting it to a six-seater, which kind of defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place (only one more seat than a standard car). I imagine I can convince him of a value of ensuring all belts are lap/sash, which does limit the choice somewhat!

jonathan18

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#1590095 12-Jul-2016 08:28

Scott3:

jonathan18:

Options with full lap/sash seat-belts

Can anyone confirm which cars/SUVs/vans with seven or eight seats (whatever the size of the third row) and within the requirements (budget $20k; => 2007; =<100k km) have full lap and sash seatbelts for the middle seat(s)?

I think it shouldn't be too hard to find such vehicles:

Dodge Journey: fits requirements, 7x lap/sash seat-belts.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/dodge/auction-1113983075.htm

Hyundai H1 (the old imax): misses requirements (2008 $21k, 160,000km), but has 8x lap/sash seatbelts

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/hyundai/auction-1080215476.htm

Toyota Previa: Fits requirements, 8x Lap/Sash seatbelts

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/toyota/auction-1121643279.htm

Given your requirements I think the big diesel vans (imax etc), are probably overkill sounds like you have no need to carry 8 People and 5+ large suitcases at the same time. Sounds like for your running you won't pay off the higher fixed costs of a diesel engine (Rego + Servicing), with fuel savings.

The Dodge looks nice, but Fiat/Crysler/Dodge consistently come in at the bottom of reliability metrics, so that would put me off that one.

How would that Previa look? The Previa/Estima must be the most common minivan in NZ, and seem to be the favorite of the taxi fleets, so must be fairly reliable / cheap to run.

Thanks heaps for this post; really useful information. I agree re potential reliability issues with the Dodge - and that's aside from trying to convince my father to buy a US-sourced car!

It's certainly the Previa that caught my eye - but it seems to be an NZ-specific feature for all seats to have lap/sash belts, ie for me to look only at Previas as opposed to Estimas (unless anyone can confirm that some of the Estimas have lap/sash belts on all eight seats - @joker97 - what's the situation in your car?)

I've taken a further look on TM, and there are a handful of Previas that are in the price range, but most have quite a few more ks on the clock - which may be somewhere my father can compromise. I know he'd prefer to buy from a dealer, so something may need to shift given the double "taxing" of this being NZ-new and a Toyota - so either be happy spending a bit more or accept higher mileage.

The reality is - currently it's only the Previa that ticks all necessary and preferred boxes: eight-seater; full seatbelts; roomy enough but not a tank (4820mm long versus 5130mm for Carnival and Odyssey). It looks like this era Previa also comes with a reversing camera, which is ideal.

The other option, given the seat belts, is the Outlander - but only a seven-seater; really a five plus two; it's an SUV (which he hates!); and it's a Mitsubishi...

I'd welcome any other ideas for seven- or eight-seater vehicles with full belts, and will have a good search tonight. Thanks again.

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Jaxson

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#1590103 12-Jul-2016 09:11

Very sorry to hear about your father.

I don't have any experience with the later model versions here, but have owned 2 Mazda MPV's and a Honda Odyssey. We picked up the Odyssey back in the day as this was one of the only vehicles that could take a double mountain buggy straight in the back, without all the folding down and lifting in.

Just a few random thoughts:

We took the MPV to Cambridge, with me, my parents and our two daughters. The wife stayed back working. That meant we had 2 children and 3 adults and an electric scooter in the back, and a walking frame and all our luggage. I'm not sure if your father requires any of the support items like this, but if it does, it really needs to count as another passenger. We were packed out on that trip, and couldn't take anymore.

I liked that the MPV etc have fold down seats. Some others we looked had had removable seats, but they didn't come with you. We like that we can fold stuff down, load up, get to the destination and then take others in our car around that area.

In the MPV, the fold down seats take the rear space where the spare wheel often lives. Should you need your spare wheel, it's a huge pain. A space saver drops down below the 2nd row of seats.

Space between the 2nd row seats is really handy for separating kids on long trips.

The 3rd row are going to be seriously boxed in. Often we load that via the rear door. The rear climate controls make up for this somewhat.

As others have said, you'd be pressed to get 3 adults across the back.

We found the rear cargo area to be quite large, both with the rear seats folded down, or with them up, as you score the volume of the rear seats when they're folded up from the floor.

Big questions really are, how often are you looking to travel, how far, how much luggage etc. If the answers to these are small, then you could get away with something that's still relatively nice to drive around town etc. If the answers are larger, then you really might need to step up to a larger vehicle in order to fit everyone/thing in in comfort. The MPV and Odyssey vehicles are essentially high roofed station wagons.

Oh and sliding doors are awesome in car parks.

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#1590111 12-Jul-2016 09:36

CVT is fairly mature now. Our new Qashqui has it, it works well, and Nissan have been using it for years. Not sure I'd rule out an otherwise good vehicle because of CVT.

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#1590115 12-Jul-2016 09:47

timmmay:

CVT is fairly mature now. Our new Qashqui has it, it works well, and Nissan have been using it for years. Not sure I'd rule out an otherwise good vehicle because of CVT.

What I do know (including from direct personal experience!) is there can be significant and costly problems with early generation CVTs - and given the price point my father's looking at, it's inevitable the car will have one of the earlier generations of CVTs. This may not be a total no-go area, given it's possible the NZ-sourced Previas have a CVT gear box, and that's currently the front-runner in terms of ticking all key boxes. Does anyone know if the "auto" in these is indeed a CVT like the Estimas of the same age?

As I acknowledged earlier, more modern versions of the CVT box may indeed be reliable, but it's still fairly early to make that call. Personally, if I was buying a new car now I'd still prefer to stay away from them, as I just don't like the "feel"; I'm much more comfortable with the more conventional six-speed auto in my Mazda6.

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#1590117 12-Jul-2016 09:49

Fair enough, early ones may be worth avoiding. New ones I have no problem with.

jonathan18

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#1590118 12-Jul-2016 09:50

Jaxson:

Very sorry to hear about your father.

I don't have any experience with the later model versions here, but have owned 2 Mazda MPV's and a Honda Odyssey. We picked up the Odyssey back in the day as this was one of the only vehicles that could take a double mountain buggy straight in the back, without all the folding down and lifting in.

Just a few random thoughts:

We took the MPV to Cambridge, with me, my parents and our two daughters. The wife stayed back working. That meant we had 2 children and 3 adults and an electric scooter in the back, and a walking frame and all our luggage. I'm not sure if your father requires any of the support items like this, but if it does, it really needs to count as another passenger. We were packed out on that trip, and couldn't take anymore.

I liked that the MPV etc have fold down seats. Some others we looked had had removable seats, but they didn't come with you. We like that we can fold stuff down, load up, get to the destination and then take others in our car around that area.

In the MPV, the fold down seats take the rear space where the spare wheel often lives. Should you need your spare wheel, it's a huge pain. A space saver drops down below the 2nd row of seats.

Space between the 2nd row seats is really handy for separating kids on long trips.

The 3rd row are going to be seriously boxed in. Often we load that via the rear door. The rear climate controls make up for this somewhat.

As others have said, you'd be pressed to get 3 adults across the back.

We found the rear cargo area to be quite large, both with the rear seats folded down, or with them up, as you score the volume of the rear seats when they're folded up from the floor.

Big questions really are, how often are you looking to travel, how far, how much luggage etc. If the answers to these are small, then you could get away with something that's still relatively nice to drive around town etc. If the answers are larger, then you really might need to step up to a larger vehicle in order to fit everyone/thing in in comfort. The MPV and Odyssey vehicles are essentially high roofed station wagons.

Oh and sliding doors are awesome in car parks.

Cheers, Jaxson... seems like you're in a similar stage of your (parents') life...

What made you go from the Odyssey to MPV? And what dissuaded you from a Previa/Estima?

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#1590158 12-Jul-2016 10:28

jonathan18:
timmmay:

CVT is fairly mature now. Our new Qashqui has it, it works well, and Nissan have been using it for years. Not sure I'd rule out an otherwise good vehicle because of CVT.

What I do know (including from direct personal experience!) is there can be significant and costly problems with early generation CVTs - and given the price point my father's looking at, it's inevitable the car will have one of the earlier generations of CVTs. This may not be a total no-go area, given it's possible the NZ-sourced Previas have a CVT gear box, and that's currently the front-runner in terms of ticking all key boxes. Does anyone know if the "auto" in these is indeed a CVT like the Estimas of the same age?

As I acknowledged earlier, more modern versions of the CVT box may indeed be reliable, but it's still fairly early to make that call. Personally, if I was buying a new car now I'd still prefer to stay away from them, as I just don't like the "feel"; I'm much more comfortable with the more conventional six-speed auto in my Mazda6.

The 2.4L old estima previa = 4 speed auto. It's a dog. Bullet proof, but a dinosaur.
New 2009+ has cvt.
The 3.5L (same engine as aurion and highlander) has a 6 speed auto Not sure about new gen. Maybe that's what you want.

My import has lap belts for middle back row. I thought the middle middle seat has a sash. Lol can't remember it has a vast seat in it. Thing with import is every car has a different spec i think it's like subway in Japan you pay for what you want and don't pay for what you don't want.

I won't rule out a cvt because you have no choice all newer jap cars have cvt almost.

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#1590255 12-Jul-2016 12:12

jonathan18:

Cheers, Jaxson... seems like you're in a similar stage of your (parents') life...

What made you go from the Odyssey to MPV?

Yeah, it sounded familiar...

Thinking back, it was a simple time to upgrade, check out the options at the time process between the Honda and the MPV.

The Honda was a really good car, and despite the size felt more like a Honda car than a minivan at times. Had the Vtec motor, so sounded good at least.

The MPV had the sliding doors, which was really good. When we upgraded from this one we got the same thing again, only younger with lower km's.
The MPV is not the best car in the world, but the space has been really flexible. When we go camping we just load it up.

The SUV style often doesn't have the flexible space off a van/minivan, so for us at least (one family with two kids and one car) the compromise is ideal.

I think you'd want to think long and hard about exactly why you'd want this type of vehicle, and see if the space is actually sufficient.

As I described earlier, we couldn't have taken 4 adults and two kids in the MPV, along with the other aids that were required.

For that you'd have to step up in size again to a van / truck / bus etc
If you have a lot of gear/ are travelling a long way, want to travel in comfort, then these people movers might not actually be big enough.

jonathan18:

what dissuaded you from a Previa/Estima?

The wife.

We just didn't think we needed to go that final step towards driving a van.

The MPV is bigger than the Odyssey inside, and that's a size that suits vs stepping it up to a van/space wagon thing.

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#1590309 12-Jul-2016 14:06

Thanks for the further feedback.

I made a trip to check out the MPV, Odyssey, Previa/Estima and Outlander at some of the local dealers. That's a good point Jaxson regarding ensuring the internal space is adequate, as I was surprised at how tight the rear was for passengers on some of them.

MPV: essentially, the middle seat in the middle row is pushing the definition of "seat"! I wasn't aware it was created by pushing the two main seats together, with the back of the middle seat formed by the armrests of the two outside seats. It's very cramped, and would be uncomfortable on anything other than short trips. The middle seat in the back row is more comfortable, but still tight, Leg space in back row is ok.

Odyssey: surprised at how low the roofline was; luckily, being short it was ok in the back row seats. Back row is fairly roomy due to only having two seats (though tight-sh on leg room).

Outlander: confirmed that back row is just not adequate.

Previa/Estima: not many around my city, and the Toyota dealer confirmed they see very few of them on their lot. Only was able to see some older/scungier versions, but of the four cars I checked out, this definitely was the most adequate in space, both people and luggage (though the MPV was pretty fair for this as well). Closest of the three people-movers to a van, so with all those benefits and disadvantages (but given my father loves his van, this isn't a bad thing for him!).

I think that lack of decent space for the additional two (MPV) or one (Odyssey) passengers makes these unsuitable for my father, as essentially they'll be comfortable only for six. If that's the case, he may as well get the Carnival, which will take six in a greater level of comfort and safety, and apparently oodles more space.

So, that takes the options down to two at the moment, both of which provide the adequate space I think he needs without getting van-large; the problem with both is that they're fairly rare and none are available locally:

Previa (ie NZ new) - key benefits over Carnival being the economy (I assume?!) and potential for getting sash/lap belts in all seats
Carnival - key benefits over the Previa being the more modern design and safety equipment, the newness, and remaining warranty

If the compromises on either of these is too much for my father, I think the answer will be to move up in size, so start considering the Alphard or other vans. The problem there is if his current Granvia doesn't fit in the garage (too high!), he could have a similar problem with other vans...

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