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Topic # 198469 10-Jul-2016 20:34
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My elderly father had a brain seizure recently, so has been told he’s unable to drive for a while (quite possibly for ever). Given how much he loves travelling, I’ve suggest we sell his two vehicles and purchase a single car that fits a good number of his extended family. I’ve read through a number of threads here on GZ (most of them started by @joker97 – thanks for these!), and now realise how many possible options there are. I was hoping to get some further advice to narrow this list down.

 

A critical requirement is a third row of seats that provides adequate space/comfort for adults, not just those pop-up kid-only add-ons. Preference is for an eight-seater (so I’d be interested in knowing which cars come with this many seats). We’d prefer lap/sash belts in all seats, but it appears this is unlikely for any middle seats: are there any cars (within his budget) in which all seats have full belts? Budget is up to around $20k. Engine probably no larger than 2.5l; ideally with stability control.

 

The following are at the top of my list based on rear space: 

 

  • Mazda MPV (8 seats)
  • Nissan Presage (8 seats)
  • Honda Odyssey (7 seats?; understand Absolute model best import option)
  • Toyota Estima (how many seats?)

 I’m aware most of the following have a third row that is really only kid-appropriate, but please let me know if this isn’t the case and would be ok for adults:

 

  • Mazda Premacy
  • Mitsubishi Grandis
  • Mitsubishi Chariot
  • Honda Elysion
  • Honda Stream
  • Toyota Wish
  • Toyota Isis
  • Toyota Ipsum 

I know there are also vans that could do the job, but these tend to be fairly substantial hulks (my father currently has a Toyota Granvia, and ideally we’d be looking for something less bulky).

 

Any advice greatly appreciated!


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  Reply # 1589286 10-Jul-2016 20:41
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None of these third rows are comfortable for 3 full size adults.

In order of decreasing comfort of third row

 

New Gen Honda oddyssey = new gen kia carnival, last gen kia carnical, mazda mpv = Toyota estima latest shape
ALmost useless for adults: Prev gen honda odyssey (and it's not 8 seats, only 7)
Useless for adults: presage, and along with your bottom list which is correct

 

*edit: if you want to go Van then ... Nissan Elgrand, Toyota Alphard, Hyundai iLoad?? etc ... but ... I don't know much about them other than it took me about 2 seconds before I discounted them ...





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  Reply # 1589302 10-Jul-2016 21:22
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There will be multitude of opinions as to which looks better, which rates well, don't listen to anything if what you need is moving big people.

 

If you want to move big people, then your primary concerns are

 

- if you're going down this path why only get 7 seats??! get 8!

 

- can people get in and out, rear row leg room

 

- how much boot space left when all seats are used vs how much space you need

 

- once those tick the boxes then look at these

 

- fuel economy, drivability, engine power delivery (aka torque curve in which case the latest Carvinal Diesel beats everyone hands down, but not sure if available in NZ, and likely beyond your budget. apart from that car the rest of the 2.xL are all the same ... really), looks, maintenance

 

I suggest you research the cars on the first line. If stability control is a must then it's down to TWO cars, latest gen Odyssey, latest gen Carnival, and maybe latest gen Estima/Previa (some do some don't thanks to the import nature of estima. previa is local but likely beyond your budget)





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  Reply # 1589303 10-Jul-2016 21:22
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As someone who's owned a 2004 Honda fit, don't touch older Oddysey's. There's an entire website dedicated to their problems..

 

CVT gearboxes are just bad news. Even wife's parents new Honda jazz still shudders when starting up hills. 


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  Reply # 1589305 10-Jul-2016 21:27
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tehgerbil:

 

As someone who's owned a 2004 Honda fit, don't touch older Oddysey's. There's an entire website dedicated to their problems..

 

CVT gearboxes are just bad news. Even wife's parents new Honda jazz still shudders when starting up hills. 

 

 

Almost all new non performance, heck even some performance! Jap cars are CVT nowadays ...





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  Reply # 1589314 10-Jul-2016 22:16
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Yep, planning on avoiding CVT gear boxes.

 

Before my current car I owned a 2001 Primera with CVT; it was a complete nightmare, but luckily all three major problems (one of which was the gear box) were fixed under the CGA. Personally, at this stage, and based on this experience, I'll not buy a car with a CVT; my own car (a current-gen Mazda 6) luckily uses a conventional 6-speed auto, and my wife's car is a 2nd-gen NZ-new Jazz, selected over the imported version to avoid the CVT. In a few years, once the more recent generations of CVT are proven, it may be a different story.

 

But, re the Odyssey and CVT - I read in one of the earlier threads that the Absolute version is a standard auto not CVT. Will check out that page, though, so thanks for the heads-up!


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  Reply # 1589323 10-Jul-2016 23:18
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jonathan18:

 

A critical requirement is a third row of seats that provides adequate space/comfort for adults, not just those pop-up kid-only add-ons. Preference is for an eight-seater (so I’d be interested in knowing which cars come with this many seats). We’d prefer lap/sash belts in all seats, but it appears this is unlikely for any middle seats: are there any cars (within his budget) in which all seats have full belts? Budget is up to around $20k. Engine probably no larger than 2.5l; ideally with stability control.

 

...

 

I know there are also vans that could do the job, but these tend to be fairly substantial hulks (my father currently has a Toyota Granvia, and ideally we’d be looking for something less bulky).



 

I haven't been in most of the ones you list, but a big issue in this vehicle class is luggage space. Many 7/8 seaters have very small luggage spaces when rear seats are in use. (of course a trailer or roof box can help)

 

----------------------------------------

 

I would seriously recommend looking at vans for your brief. I assume you have read my post here Here.

 

Was given an Hyundai iMax as a rental for a couple of weeks, was really good for our needs. Fits 8x adults, turbo diesel goes real hard, turning circle is really tight (its rear wheel drive), Lots of luggage space. It has forward engine, so car like in that regard. It is also shorter than the Utes (Ford Ranger etc), so fits in normal car-parks (including most underground carparks - It is 1.93m tall, so you need to check the signs every time)

 

2 on trade-me in budget, but super high mileage. There is a one for $24k Asking price with more reasonable mileage.

 

---------------------------------------

 

I have a soft spot for the Ssangyong Stavic. They have a nice Mercadies sourced diesel engine, and are configured as 2x2x3 giving you a second row walk-through. (moving seats every time get people in/out of the third row gets old fast). You can get them quite cheap (probiably due to the looks and rare brand)

 

Here is one for 15k

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ssangyong/auction-1098814702.htm

 

---------------------------------------

 

Current Gen Kia Carnival is really well specified and has awesome packaging, But they were only released last year, so you $40k is the cheapest you will get.

 

Prev gen Carnival is OK. Second row seats are all the same, and can be individually removed for a walk trough to the 3rd row. Only engine option is a 200kW V6 (very powerful), but will cost a lot more to run than the diesels

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/kia/auction-1102990283.htm

 

---------------------------------------

 

Euro vans fit your budget too, for example:

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-1090499853.htm

 

---------------------------------------

 

Never been on one, But I would take a look at the Toyota Alphard, it smaller than say the iMax, but nicer than the Estima. The Previa/Estima would be worth a look too. 

 

These Toyota's are avilable as hybrids if you are concened about running costs.

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/toyota/auction-1103502104.htm

 

 


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  Reply # 1589338 10-Jul-2016 23:55
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Scott3:

 

 

 

 

Do you actually own a 7 seater?

 

- How is a gap in the middle going to allow anyone to "walk through"? It's not a bus. The passengers occupying the middle row still have to get off, no? If they have to get off, what is the difference between crawling through the middle vs squeezing though the side with the seat slid forward? (No I haven't owned a 7 seater ... I pay less for 8!)

 

My Estima with all 8 seats in use, allows me to fit FIVE LARGE SUITCASES in the boot + groceries + a pram.

 

IIRC the Kia Carnival has even (slightly) more boot space :))))) 





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  Reply # 1589340 11-Jul-2016 00:10
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jonathan18:

 

Yep, planning on avoiding CVT gear boxes.

 

Before my current car I owned a 2001 Primera with CVT; it was a complete nightmare, but luckily all three major problems (one of which was the gear box) were fixed under the CGA. Personally, at this stage, and based on this experience, I'll not buy a car with a CVT; my own car (a current-gen Mazda 6) luckily uses a conventional 6-speed auto, and my wife's car is a 2nd-gen NZ-new Jazz, selected over the imported version to avoid the CVT. In a few years, once the more recent generations of CVT are proven, it may be a different story.

 

But, re the Odyssey and CVT - I read in one of the earlier threads that the Absolute version is a standard auto not CVT. Will check out that page, though, so thanks for the heads-up!

 

 

FOr your budget and needs the only thing I can see is a Toyota Estima 2009 + (new update model). Some of them have ESP. It's called VSC. Ask the dealer when he turns the ignition is there is a VSC light on the dash. If the light is there you have VSC. If not, you don't.

 

Umm ... but it's a CVT. All Toyotas since nearly a decade all use CVTs ... hmm ... all I can say is i sat in a Toyota Corolla CVT and it was a pig like my Nissan ... Nissan CVT = hopeless. Toyota CVT seems to be ..? -> Google





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  Reply # 1589341 11-Jul-2016 01:38
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joker97:

 

 

 

Do you actually own a 7 seater?

 

 

 

 

No, I have a hatchback.

 

Comments regarding luggage space were more pointed at the likes of the Odyssey, Toyota wish etc.

 

 

 

My in-laws are somewhat frail, and were sitting in the second row of the van. I, as the driver had to re-position the seat for them every time before they got in. I assumed the ability to get more agile people into the third row was the benefit of a 7 seater. All estima taxi's I have been in have had the seat by the door removed for access to the third row (turning 8 seaters into 7 seaters).


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  Reply # 1589343 11-Jul-2016 02:02
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Hyundai iLoad/iMax (will be the most comfortable) - I had this checked out recently. 

 

Nissan Elgrand is the close choice.

 

With regards to CVT - all those comments are rubbish. If it is a new car - the CVT is just as fun (although it may need time to get used to it). The older CVT does have issues. If you are looking at cars from 2008 onwards - which I suspect you can afford with that ($20k) budget, I don't see any issue at all getting one with CVT. Essentially, CVT transmission equals to a car with 'unlimited' gears.






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  Reply # 1589380 11-Jul-2016 07:09
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Scott3:

 

joker97:

 

 

 

Do you actually own a 7 seater?

 

 

 

 

No, I have a hatchback.

 

Comments regarding luggage space were more pointed at the likes of the Odyssey, Toyota wish etc.

 

 

 

My in-laws are somewhat frail, and were sitting in the second row of the van. I, as the driver had to re-position the seat for them every time before they got in. I assumed the ability to get more agile people into the third row was the benefit of a 7 seater. All estima taxi's I have been in have had the seat by the door removed for access to the third row (turning 8 seaters into 7 seaters).

 

 

7 Seats are not to benefit the back row, but to benefit the 2 middle row guys because they get business class I mean bucket seats with foot piece support.

 

Rear access is slightly improved, as you said, but still requires disembarking middle row passenger. You are correct that the middle row seat doesn't need repositioning however, as they can crawl through the middle :)

 

(I once rented a Kia carnival and removed the middle seat of the middle row)





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  Reply # 1589381 11-Jul-2016 07:14
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nakedmolerat:

 

Hyundai iLoad/iMax (will be the most comfortable) - I had this checked out recently. 

 

Nissan Elgrand is the close choice.

 

With regards to CVT - all those comments are rubbish. If it is a new car - the CVT is just as fun (although it may need time to get used to it). The older CVT does have issues. If you are looking at cars from 2008 onwards - which I suspect you can afford with that ($20k) budget, I don't see any issue at all getting one with CVT. Essentially, CVT transmission equals to a car with 'unlimited' gears.

 

 

The question is still whether said CVT will last 300,000ks which is the life of a van/mpv - the old standard auto would do an easy 150,000ks even if abused. 300,000 if not abused??

 

 





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  Reply # 1589394 11-Jul-2016 08:25
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Thanks for all the feedback - useful stuff, and I welcome any further ideas!

 

Having spent a while on TM last night, the particular vehicles on sale at the moment that stood out as best value for money are the three 2013 Kia Carnivals for sale in (of all places!) Invercargill, one of which was linked to in a post above. Range from $17k to $19k; done mid-80k kms; NZ new and still have 1.5-2 years of warranty left; relatively modern, so safety features are good (10 airbags, ESC etc). Biggest issue is that large engine, but for the amount they're going to use it I can hopefully convince my parents it's not an issue. Any particular thoughts on this idea? Links to all three cars below:

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/kia/auction-1115815193.htm

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/kia/auction-1102990283.htm

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/kia/auction-1115815016.htm

 

As to other options: budget's up to around $20k, so however great certain vehicles are if they're either above this or have stupid mileage (eg all iMaxs I've seen on TM) they're just not an option.

 

Luggage space isn't a huge issue, as it's going to be more for day trips than anything else. That said, the MPV looks like it has a decent boot space with all seats in use, and joker89 reports the same with the Estima.  While I know vans will give the biggest space, they're also inevitably bricks on wheels - and for a vehicle that will also get some use around town (eg, when my siblings are in the city to stay with my parents) it would be nice to have something not gargantuan. 

 

Hadn't thought about European, though that 08 Merc seems good value, and not bad mileage; I think, though, I'd find it hard to convince my father to buy European, given his concern regarding repair/maintenance costs (not keen on re-starting that particular discussion here!).

 

I think that if the Stavic had been my child I'd have exposed it at birth... I'm serious that I believe it is (aesthetically) the devil's spawn, and quite possibly the ugliest car ever made. It may be a great vehicle, but its looks are such that I just can't get past them!

 

 


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  Reply # 1589395 11-Jul-2016 08:41
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Looked at the Mitsubishi Outlander?





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  Reply # 1589402 11-Jul-2016 09:05
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Inphinity:

 

Looked at the Mitsubishi Outlander?

 

 

Thanks for the idea. No, I hadn't looked at this model, primarily as my father has a (what some may think as an irrational) dislike of SUVs! Also, my understanding was these were distinctly a 5+2 as opposed to a true seven- (let alone eight-) seater. That said, if they offer good room at the back, it could be an option. One thing I see is the possibility of a proper lap/sash belt in the middle seat in this auction http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mitsubishi/auction-1109499151.htm - which makes it safer for seven on the open road.


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