When will they start charging RUC for electric cars?

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#1808844 29-Jun-2017 11:56

wellygary:

RUC will need to be reformed before it can realistically be applied to EVs

The current RUC rates severely overtax light vehicles, with one size of under 3.5 tonne, along with a rate that is only slightly lower than the 3-5 - 6 tonne truck class (6.2c v 6.8c/km)

The current RUC rate pretty much killed the small diesel car market, and would be a big hand brake on EVs

A 1.4L TDI VW Polo gets painted with the same brush as a 2 tonne Audi Q7 or Ford Ranger.
RUC should be limited to trucks and based on axle weight, Light diesel vehicles should pay tax at as pump as same as a petrol.
Generally the heavier vehicles will use more petrol which means they pay more tax for the amount of distance they travel. (In scale with a polo compared to a 4.2TDI Q7)

GeekRay

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#1808845 29-Jun-2017 11:57

How about we re-purpose the Fossil Fuel Subsidy to support RUC?

afe66

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#1808847 29-Jun-2017 12:00

With new ev registrations running at 300 per month it's going to be years if ever, that it reaches the 1% threshold when the government starts ruc.

The recently released mieb document shows current government has no real interest in ev's.

So having answered the OP question let's close this thread and start a new one on whether RUC should continue or be revised or whatever...

MikeAqua

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#1808850 29-Jun-2017 12:07

While I haven't seen any info on the difference in wear or tear if different sized under 3,500kg ...I'd love to. I'm paying for about 1,500kg extra mass.

Logic dictates that road wear will be proportional to vehicle mass. But not precisely and also, there will be a lower limit beneath which all 'vehicles' wear the road the same.

Mike

afe66

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#1808854 29-Jun-2017 12:12

That means farmers with their trucks should pay more...thats not going to happen.

Talkiet

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#1808855 29-Jun-2017 12:12

GeekRay:

How about we re-purpose the Fossil Fuel Subsidy to support RUC?

So you're in favour of transferring the RUC tax burden away from the well off that can afford electric cars and onto the poor who will continue to use their mid 90's corollas for some time to come?

I fail to see how the fairest method isn't a method that shares the costs fairly between all road vehicles.

Electric cars have lots of benefits, let THOSE benefits sell them, not contrived tax structures.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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floydbloke

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#1808868 29-Jun-2017 12:25

afe66: With new ev registrations running at 300 per month it's going to be years if ever, that it reaches the 1% threshold when the government starts ruc.

The recently released mieb document shows current government has no real interest in ev's.

So having answered the OP question let's close this thread and start a new one on whether RUC should continue or be revised or whatever...

My original question was based on speculated trends such as this

From this article:

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-ev-oil-crisis/

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

Horseychick

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#1808874 29-Jun-2017 12:37

Just a small note - RUC labels can be bought online now. I've been doing it for a few years so no need to go near a Post Shop

Lias

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#1808875 29-Jun-2017 12:39

Totally valid idea, i think it should be implemented once the number of EV's reaches a reasonable threshold.

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afe66

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#1808889 29-Jun-2017 12:50

floydbloke:

afe66: With new ev registrations running at 300 per month it's going to be years if ever, that it reaches the 1% threshold when the government starts ruc.

The recently released mieb document shows current government has no real interest in ev's.

So having answered the OP question let's close this thread and start a new one on whether RUC should continue or be revised or whatever...

My original question was based on speculated trends such as this

From this article:

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-ev-oil-crisis/

From that article.

For EVs to achieve widespread adoption, one of four things must happen:

1. Governments must offer incentives to lower the costs.
2. Manufacturers must accept extremely low profit margins.
3. Customers must be willing to pay more to drive electric.
4. The cost of batteries must come down."

Step one _isnt_ going to happen here.

Step three may struggle here

Some nz numbers

https://www.facebook.com/EVCentral/photos/a.1808411592748242.1073741828.1808012926121442/1917568655165868/?type=3

23 years is a long long time away. How accurately can anyone predict anything...

Coil

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#1808897 29-Jun-2017 13:09

Horseychick:

Just a small note - RUC labels can be bought online now. I've been doing it for a few years so no need to go near a Post Shop

Yes but that doesnt let you escape the fact it takes time to arrive in the post and has to be put into the vehicle and you may also have to print a temporary licence thats only valid for 9 days. If your RUC doesnt show up you have to pay a re print fee at a post office or NZTA Vendor. Sure its easier these days with the likes of EROAD and iBright but they charge upwards of $50 a month just to automatically charge RUC.

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MikeAqua

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#1808898 29-Jun-2017 13:09

Coil:

RUC should be limited to trucks and based on axle weight, Light diesel vehicles should pay tax at as pump as same as a petrol.

How does the pump know what it's filling?

I regularly fill my diesel SUV at truck fuel stops, especially when I'm towing the boat, which I can't get in and out of most service stations.

Or are you saying all diesel pay at pumps and heavies pay extra by distance?

And what about diesel boats will they for road use pay at marina diesel pumps?

If I fill my petrol boat now at a marina pump I'm paying for road use ...

Mike

Coil

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#1808902 29-Jun-2017 13:25

MikeAqua:

Coil:

RUC should be limited to trucks and based on axle weight, Light diesel vehicles should pay tax at as pump as same as a petrol.

How does the pump know what it's filling?

I regularly fill my diesel SUV at truck fuel stops, especially when I'm towing the boat, which I can't get in and out of most service stations.

Or are you saying all diesel pay at pumps and heavies pay extra by distance?

And what about diesel boats will they for road use pay at marina diesel pumps?

If I fill my petrol boat now at a marina pump I'm paying for road use ...

The whole system is full of ifs and buts and what ifs as you just proved above.

Heavies fill at a pump and pay RUC ontop of the base cost of diesel. RUC restructure would have to occur.
Currently we dont care if it weighs 1 tonne or 3 if its petrol so apply the same for light diesel. No RUC label to be displayed.
Over 3 tonnes on diesel and you must display a RUC label.

For boats its pointless making it exempt from the road taxes. I could go fill up my ol mans launch with 2000L of diesel a side then siphon it all out to my ute over time and then im exempt from the road tax. I couldnt come up with a way to tax boats diesel and fuel usage.

Edit, In the states they put a dye in their fuel. Maybe something similar, But that wont stop many.

GeekRay

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#1808942 29-Jun-2017 13:42

Talkiet:

So you're in favour of transferring the RUC tax burden away from the well off that can afford electric cars and onto the poor who will continue to use their mid 90's corollas for some time to come?

I am not in favour of any option yet; it was a simple question to assess a potential solution. If that was/is a workable option, it might reduce the RUC for all instead of a specific group, since transportation is one of our essential needs.

Also, why don't we work out something to make EVs affordable for everyone, so it's not a symbol or badge for those well-off?

wellygary

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#1808946 29-Jun-2017 13:45

Coil:

Edit, In the states they put a dye in their fuel. Maybe something similar, But that wont stop many.

Ain't gonna happen ....

"The alternative of moving all vehicles to fuel based taxes (for example, replacing RUC with diesel tax) was discounted at an early stage. This approach would impose significant refund costs on non-transport users of diesel, or require complex and costly systems of different coloured diesel for different purposes."

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Our-Work/Documents/ff-summary-report.pdf

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