A NZ Rail Renaissance?

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#1856219 1-Sep-2017 06:48

Rail is a bit like the proposal to move the port to Marsden Point. Its spreading the load around, reducing hotspots of congestion. If you have a rail line, its not hard to double it if need be, roading to increase lanes is a huge cost

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#1856472 1-Sep-2017 11:03

It's a great idea, but Winnie is asserting it could be done in 10 years. This is best-case if they had all the funding

and approvals.

He's got some good ideas, but cut from a similar cloth to Trump (and all the other grandstanding politicians).

tdgeek

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#1856489 1-Sep-2017 11:19

sudo:

It's a great idea, but Winnie is asserting it could be done in 10 years. This is best-case if they had all the funding

and approvals.

He's got some good ideas, but cut from a similar cloth to Trump (and all the other grandstanding politicians).

Start outfitting the new port, so we have a little port and a big port, then over time we end up with one big port and empty wharves in AKL put to better use

trig42

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#1856495 1-Sep-2017 11:31

The issue with moving the Port north (as I see it anyway) is getting all those goods south.

The trucking lobby (do not underestimate their power) will need more roads built - it will need to be more than two lanes in each direction from Whangarei to Waiwera, and then the extra trucks on the current motorway south from there will overload that in no time - so more lanes on the Northern and Northwestern motorways.

The answer is trains, but the line at the moment is in need of replacing (or at least double tracking?) and it has to get to somewhere in Auckland too - so duplicating the Western line (or adding a third main) for freight through to the Inland port at Wiri?

I'm in favour of Trains, the more people/good on rails, the less on roads = money saving and less asphalt. The problem with roads, is they will never be able to build enough to satisfy demand - the more roads you build, the more demand for them you induce.

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#1856499 1-Sep-2017 11:34

Winston's argument that simply sticking it on rail to northport is a huge crock and he knows it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/78592378/kiwirail-delivers-a-reality-check-at-grow-northland-rail-meeting-in-whangarei

"Kiwirail Asset manager peter Gordon says if Northport is to become a major export port it will need to get products from regions south of Auckland such as the Manawatu.

"There is no efficient freight rail link through the Auckland isthmus. The rail network in Auckland is getting busier and busier, you would probably have to triple track the line from Newmarket or Avondale through to outside the Auckland isthmus area."

He says that would cost another $2-3 billion.

frankv

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#1856532 1-Sep-2017 12:14

We are suddenly looking at this because it's election year and Winnie has stirred the pot.

Why wasn't this looked into 5 years ago and either

found to be viable (at, presumably, about now) and implementation got underway in an orderly and economic fashion 4 years ago, so that it's a non-issue now, or
found to be non-viable due to the issues through the Auckland isthmus or lack of land around Marsden Point, or whatever, so that it's a non-issue now.

Yet another example of short-term thinking and lack of vision by government, including Winnie... why wasn't *he* stirring this up 5 years ago, or any time in the last 2 years whilst he's been the local MP?

Maybe it's time for a complete rethink of railway infrastructure around/through Auckland, supporting fast passenger trains to Hamilton and Tauranga, as well as freight through Auckland to Whangarei?

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old3eyes

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#1856552 1-Sep-2017 12:38

trig42:

The issue with moving the Port north (as I see it anyway) is getting all those goods south.

The trucking lobby (do not underestimate their power) will need more roads built - it will need to be more than two lanes in each direction from Whangarei to Waiwera, and then the extra trucks on the current motorway south from there will overload that in no time - so more lanes on the Northern and Northwestern motorways.

The answer is trains, but the line at the moment is in need of replacing (or at least double tracking?) and it has to get to somewhere in Auckland too - so duplicating the Western line (or adding a third main) for freight through to the Inland port at Wiri?

I'm in favour of Trains, the more people/good on rails, the less on roads = money saving and less asphalt. The problem with roads, is they will never be able to build enough to satisfy demand - the more roads you build, the more demand for them you induce.

From what I heard yesterday morning the trunking and used car importers were against the move and were really against any form of rail transport from the Northport.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#1856571 1-Sep-2017 12:56

wellygary:

Winston's argument that simply sticking it on rail to northport is a huge crock and he knows it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/78592378/kiwirail-delivers-a-reality-check-at-grow-northland-rail-meeting-in-whangarei

"Kiwirail Asset manager peter Gordon says if Northport is to become a major export port it will need to get products from regions south of Auckland such as the Manawatu.

"There is no efficient freight rail link through the Auckland isthmus. The rail network in Auckland is getting busier and busier, you would probably have to triple track the line from Newmarket or Avondale through to outside the Auckland isthmus area."

He says that would cost another $2-3 billion.

there is always the avondale to southdown line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avondale%E2%80%93Southdown_Line

most of the route is empty, as its been a rail designation for may years and never been built on. Along side the southwestern there has been space left and most of the interchanges have been built with space for a rail line under them.

nigelj

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#1856572 1-Sep-2017 12:57

tdgeek:

Jase2985:

there is just not enough space to move it north, nor is there enough space in tauranga for it.

could you split it between the 2? maybe

the thing people to fail to realise is its not just the workers at the port, its all the families all the subcontractors etc they you need to move should the port move. its not just a simple move the port.

The mayor like the idea? Port too big for AKL, does seem to make sense.

Pretty sure Goff is FOR disbanding the current Port, but (at least partly) AGAINST the idea of moving it outside the greater Auckland Council area. i.e. http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/move-the-port-and-watch-rates-rise-auckland-mayor-phil-goff.html

Jase2985

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#1856578 1-Sep-2017 13:08

the problem i see is neither tauranga or north port have that much more space to expand, and given the volume that auckland does at the moment i just cant see it being able to be split obve both of them, and still have room to grow.

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#1856645 1-Sep-2017 14:42

tdgeek:

Start outfitting the new port, so we have a little port and a big port, then over time we end up with one big port and empty wharves in AKL put to better use

Yep and that will take about 20 years, as indicated by Goff.

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sudo

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#1856676 1-Sep-2017 14:51

old3eyes:

From what I heard yesterday morning the trunking and used car importers were against the move and were really against any form of rail transport from the Northport.

Just start hiking prices from Auckland ports. They can also make any trucking firm access to Northport more expensive.

Eventually they will have to follow everyone else in the market.

MikeAqua

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#1856693 1-Sep-2017 15:03

Linuxluver:

If we can't do this, we definitely shouldn't be spending $10billion on National's Roads of Crony Significance (Fulton Hogan and the trucking lobby).

I'm only familiar with the RNS in my town and I think it's needed. The current road is unreliable (between cliff and seas), dangerous for cyclists, affected by waves, lacks capacity, serves a port and is part of SH6. Rail is not an alternative to a SH in Nelson.

You use roads don't you? Maybe even that Tirau Stretch?

Mike

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#1856717 1-Sep-2017 15:14

old3eyes:

From what I heard yesterday morning the trunking and used car importers were against the move and were really against any form of rail transport from the Northport.

I can understand that. Cars are close to a WCS for off and on loading. They have to be driven on. But ... there are trains that specialise in transporting cars in the world and those systems could be readily copied - for example the one under the English Channel.

I guess the issue is cars need to be distributed in their destination cities. Currently a car transport truck goes to multiple car dealers and they all unload there.

Perhaps they could just load car transport trailers onto wagons and hook onto a truck after uploading at the final destination and distribute that way.

Mike

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#1856729 1-Sep-2017 15:22

Linuxluver:

The regional rail plan is visionary. It should have been built 10 years ago. It's much more pleasant to ride on a train than drive.....especially if you have to do it a lot.

But even better.....rail is a lot cheaper and faster than roads....to build and maintain.

The thing I like about rail - CBD to CBD Transport. Brussels to Amsterdam was so fast and easy, reasonably priced and from memory less then 2 hours.

Compared to the hassle of airports ....

And getting to Bruges was easy too.

I'd have to admit I have never done a long distance train trip in NZ. Thinking about doing one in November. AKL - WLG

Mike

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