A NZ Rail Renaissance?

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Sidestep

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#222842 31-Aug-2017 10:23

Winston's announcement that getting his MMP support will entail moving the Port of Auckland to Whangarei pivots the near future of road vs rail construction in NZ - and probably makes Simon Bridge's hair stand on end.

Labour has already promised to 'investigate' the move.. but their investigation would've shown the existing Auckland – Whangarei rail line's absolutely stuffed, and the link to the port hasn't ever got past the stage of land designation.

Their adoption of (transportblog's) radical plans for passenger rail to Hamilton and Tauranga - along an already heavily used freight rail route - continued electrification of the main trunk line and reopening of mothballed regional routes - and now Mr Peter's tilt towards another giant rail project, means a potential new coalition government would throw 'billions and billions' of dollars at rail construction.

His potential role as Kingmaker makes a really massive rail construction/reconstruction project very likely whoever wins the election.

Even National - along with their 'New Roads of National Significance' - would electrify 20km of track to Pukekohe, match Labour's promise of a new third freight rail line through Auckland, build a Wellington 'commuter package' and other rail projects.

It looks as though NZ's neglected rail network's about to get a shot in the arm (or maybe a quadruple heart bypass).

And my most hoped for porkbarrel - the "Next Generation Roads of National Significance" will turn out to have been just a shimmering mirage..

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#1855748 31-Aug-2017 10:28

Build them and they will come.

rb99

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#1855757 31-Aug-2017 10:34

Know very little about this whole port thing, but would be more than happy if a bit (or lot) less money was thrown at the altar of the Great God Car.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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MikeAqua

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#1855820 31-Aug-2017 11:14

It makes sense in some ways - get's heavy traffic out of Auckland's congested CBD and frees up waterfront space for residential, hospitality, tourism and public amenity.

You would want to be sure relocating to Whangarei, doesn't just a result in many, many, many more trucks on the harbour bridge and on Northern roads. There would need policies that massively discourage containers and other bulk goods arriving/leaving by truck. Send trucks to 'inland-ports' instead.

But a massive investment would be required for both the rail line and the Port. This may not be feasible?

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Aredwood

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#1855823 31-Aug-2017 11:17

You will need to see far better land use policies first. Before car usage declines by a decent amount. As people are moving further and further away from Auckland to excape high house prices.

And lots of people are buying rural or small town properties to use as weekend homes. Or they have jobs that they can telecommute to on most days. So a lot more long distance car travel. Again due high property prices.

MikeAqua

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#1855829 31-Aug-2017 11:23

Aredwood: You will need to see far better land use policies first. Before car usage declines by a decent amount. As people are moving further and further away from Auckland to excape high house prices.

And lots of people are buying rural or small town properties to use as weekend homes. Or they have jobs that they can telecommute to on most days. So a lot more long distance car travel. Again due high property prices.

And ... highly productive land is being paved over. Seriously some of the fringe land around Auckland is the best food production land in the country.

Bulldoze orchards and market gardens (stripping and selling the top soil) to put in subdivisions - what could possibly go wrong?

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#1856135 31-Aug-2017 20:32

Moving the port north would vastly increase the economic development of the far north region. It would take a while for those benefits to spread to the people and some planning would have to take place to ensure that happened sooner rather than later.

Jase2985

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#1856141 31-Aug-2017 20:41

there is just not enough space to move it north, nor is there enough space in tauranga for it.

could you split it between the 2? maybe

the thing people to fail to realise is its not just the workers at the port, its all the families all the subcontractors etc they you need to move should the port move. its not just a simple move the port.

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tdgeek

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#1856149 31-Aug-2017 20:56

MikeAqua:

It makes sense in some ways - get's heavy traffic out of Auckland's congested CBD and frees up waterfront space for residential, hospitality, tourism and public amenity.

You would want to be sure relocating to Whangarei, doesn't just a result in many, many, many more trucks on the harbour bridge and on Northern roads. There would need policies that massively discourage containers and other bulk goods arriving/leaving by truck. Send trucks to 'inland-ports' instead.

But a massive investment would be required for both the rail line and the Port. This may not be feasible?

Mayor of AKL supports it. The port is in the way, so moving it will allow Northland to prosper, AKL to use the port for cruise ships etc, all sounds quite good.

What I like about this election is that its forcing some good kiwi based policies to happen. Pity many have been left till now, but an opportunity for employment and updating the place a little

tdgeek

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#1856151 31-Aug-2017 20:58

Jase2985:

there is just not enough space to move it north, nor is there enough space in tauranga for it.

could you split it between the 2? maybe

the thing people to fail to realise is its not just the workers at the port, its all the families all the subcontractors etc they you need to move should the port move. its not just a simple move the port.

The mayor like the idea? Port too big for AKL, does seem to make sense.

Jase2985

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#1856154 31-Aug-2017 21:01

the problem is you can like an idea because of the outcome it gives for the land it frees up, but where there is no real idea of what or how to achieve it or what it entails, its kinda missing a big part of it isnt it

it does but there are other options closer to auckland like wairoa north of clevedon

tdgeek

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#1856159 31-Aug-2017 21:08

Jase2985:

the problem is you can like an idea because of the outcome it gives for the land it frees up, but where there is no real idea of what or how to achieve it or what it entails, its kinda missing a big part of it isnt it

it does but there are other options closer to auckland like wairoa north of clevedon

Its a new idea. The AKL mayor who will lose the port likes it. It does need to be planned, yes, but in essence its a good idea that many like. If your car sales yard has got too big, you need to move to a new bigger one. Cruise ships, sailing, development in AKL port area can make great use of getting rid of an eyesore port. But you still have a port, just elsewhere.

Linuxluver

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#1856174 31-Aug-2017 22:08

MikeAqua:

It makes sense in some ways - get's heavy traffic out of Auckland's congested CBD and frees up waterfront space for residential, hospitality, tourism and public amenity.

You would want to be sure relocating to Whangarei, doesn't just a result in many, many, many more trucks on the harbour bridge and on Northern roads. There would need policies that massively discourage containers and other bulk goods arriving/leaving by truck. Send trucks to 'inland-ports' instead.

But a massive investment would be required for both the rail line and the Port. This may not be feasible?

Rail is cheaper to build than roads.....every time, every day of the week. Lay down from heavy fill as a road bed and ballast...and embed sleepers in it and put rail on them. Cheaper than hectare after hectare of asphalt every. single. time.

If we can't do this, we definitely shouldn't be spending $10billion on National's Roads of Crony Significance (Fulton Hogan and the trucking lobby).

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Linuxluver

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#1856176 31-Aug-2017 22:13

Sidestep:

....

Their adoption of (transportblog's) radical plans for passenger rail to Hamilton and Tauranga - along an already heavily used freight rail route - continued electrification of the main trunk line and reopening of mothballed regional routes - and now Mr Peter's tilt towards another giant rail project, means a potential new coalition government would throw 'billions and billions' of dollars at rail construction.

....

The regional rail plan is visionary. It should have been built 10 years ago. It's much more pleasant to ride on a train than drive.....especially if you have to do it a lot.

But even better.....rail is a lot cheaper and faster than roads....to build and maintain.

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gzt

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#1856180 31-Aug-2017 22:37

For me the main problem with all this is we don't have a clear idea of what we are building or why we are doing it. It's all short term to fix problems even this medium term rail type stuff is a problem fix. But, even some medium term things are better than nothing at all.

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#1856186 31-Aug-2017 23:28

Linuxluver:

Sidestep:

....

Their adoption of (transportblog's) radical plans for passenger rail to Hamilton and Tauranga - along an already heavily used freight rail route - continued electrification of the main trunk line and reopening of mothballed regional routes - and now Mr Peter's tilt towards another giant rail project, means a potential new coalition government would throw 'billions and billions' of dollars at rail construction.

....

The regional rail plan is visionary. It should have been built 10 years ago. It's much more pleasant to ride on a train than drive.....especially if you have to do it a lot.

But even better.....rail is a lot cheaper and faster than roads....to build and maintain.

I agree, one of the reasons I'm a fan of what the Greens are proposing in Wellington with the light rail especially with the recent build up of new apartments in and around the CBD.

We not only need to invest more into public transport but drive down the cost through innovative approaches such as a $80 per month unlimited travel card (rail, bus, cable car or tram) - make it an attractive thing that businesses that can offer to their employees free of charge and allow the business to write-off 200% ($160) of the cost of the ticket - "congratulations, you're now working for Intergen, here is your free public transportation card" which, for those driving back and forth to work, would be like an extra $50 in the pocket since they're no longer having to pay for parking, petrol etc.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

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