Johnsonville Wellington "Park N Ride" and Wilson Parking breaches

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8318 posts

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#2156400 8-Jan-2019 13:54

PolicyGuy: 20 + 35 = 55 total commuter "Park & Ride" car parks at a major hub like Johnsonville.
Sheesh, not what you'd call a generous allocation

The site is pretty much totally constrained by the Mall owner...

its claimed there are "plans" for a better hub ( and maybe more parking) once the mall redevelopment happens, but given this redevelopment has been promised for well over 10 years and nothing has happened.... don't hold your breath......

nickb800

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#2156413 8-Jan-2019 14:15

From looking at the Walking Access Commission maps, it looks like there's a strip of mall carpark which is on public land. Wilsons will probably still ticket you there, but you can feel like you have the moral high ground as you ignore/dispute their infringement notice.

https://www.wams.org.nz/PublicAccessAreas/

kingdragonfly

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#2156467 8-Jan-2019 15:03

nickb800:
From looking at the Walking Access Commission maps, it looks like there's a strip of mall carpark which is on public land. Wilsons will probably still ticket you there, but you can feel like you have the moral high ground as you ignore/dispute their infringement notice.

https://www.wams.org.nz/PublicAccessAreas/

Could you upload a picture (JPG's work best)? I'm not sure I see it.

wellygary

8318 posts

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#2156468 8-Jan-2019 15:09

kingdragonfly:
nickb800:

From looking at the Walking Access Commission maps, it looks like there's a strip of mall carpark which is on public land. Wilsons will probably still ticket you there, but you can feel like you have the moral high ground as you ignore/dispute their infringement notice.

https://www.wams.org.nz/PublicAccessAreas/

Could you upload a picture (JPG's work best)? I'm not sure I see it.

I'm presuming he's talking about "gothic street" which as a legal road goes all the way to the mall doors, rather than just the formed bit past the Toyworld off Broderick road...

Its on the councils webmap too...

https://gis.wcc.govt.nz/LocalMaps/Viewer/?map=d576440c16dd48628d96839f8f0c90be

The question is has the council done a deal with the mall owners, that allows them to operate a carpark (and presumably enforce it) on the roadway.... only the WCC could answer that...

jpoc

1043 posts

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#2156488 8-Jan-2019 16:06

wellygary:

its claimed there are "plans" for a better hub ( and maybe more parking) once the mall redevelopment happens, but given this redevelopment has been promised for well over 10 years and nothing has happened.... don't hold your breath......

Mall owners and park and ride operators across the whole world are reluctant to spend money on car parking at the moment. They are watching developments in Phoenix with great interest.

In the US, malls that are in construction or under development are being configured with temporary car parking only with the intention to reconfigure the parking buildings as offices in a few years time.

Mark

1653 posts

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#2156489 8-Jan-2019 16:07

gareth41:

I filed out the form here to revoke access to my registration details and then placed any "breach notices" straight in the bin.

https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/PersonalInfoAccess/entry

Never had any issues with these clowns since, but you do need to be careful because your vehicle's registration might be put on a hit list and towed/clamped if seen in any wilsons/pesnz controlled carpark. I haven't had any issues parking at the shopping centre carparks controlled by pesnz but I do avoid the wilsons paid carparks now because of previous unpaid breach notices against my registration, first time it happened was because I was 5min late getting back to the car - the Auckland transport owned car-parks are far cheaper anyway so I use them.

If a company (Wilsons for example) has already issued a ticket to you in the past, do they keep the details on the car and owner ? Not sure what data protection laws exist, say you got fined, Wilsons looked your details up in the NZTA database, sent you a bill and you paid it. Then you opt out for personal infomration access and get another ticket at a Wilsons car park .. do they do a look up again ? or would they have kept your details ?

Mark

WyleECoyoteNZ

1049 posts

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#2156496 8-Jan-2019 16:17

I haven't read everything above, but this is my understanding of the carparks

Area's A & B circled in red (badly) are the park and ride areas

The areas\carparks highlighted in yellow are reserved carparks. Well, at least they used to be a couple of months ago. I've never parked in the areas highlighted yellow, because in the past i know they've been reserved. These markings may have now faded though as the carpark surface is just awful

EDIT: To my knowledge, the carparks not in the circled or highlighted areas are then for mall use only, where the 3 hour limit applies.

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WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2156503 8-Jan-2019 16:29

And further to my above post, one of the areas highlighted yellow is where these cars parked on the left are in the picture below

However, with the changes to the Wellington buses earlier last year, some of those car parks may have gone. In the above picture, where the red car is parked is no longer a car park, but a bus shelter now. The bus stop shown on the right of the picture no longer exists, as this has been moved to Moorefield road outside the Countdown.

Geektastic

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#2156715 8-Jan-2019 23:40

PolicyGuy: 20 + 35 = 55 total commuter "Park & Ride" car parks at a major hub like Johnsonville.
Sheesh, not what you'd call a generous allocation

That is because they do not really know what Park n Ride is supposed to be. What this appears to be is nothing more than 'station carparking" if I have understood the information above correctly.

Park and Ride would be a 2000 space car park a short bus ride from the CBD and the parking fee would include the bus transfer.

nickb800

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#2156725 9-Jan-2019 06:46

wellygary:

kingdragonfly:
nickb800:

From looking at the Walking Access Commission maps, it looks like there's a strip of mall carpark which is on public land. Wilsons will probably still ticket you there, but you can feel like you have the moral high ground as you ignore/dispute their infringement notice.

https://www.wams.org.nz/PublicAccessAreas/

Could you upload a picture (JPG's work best)? I'm not sure I see it.

I'm presuming he's talking about "gothic street" which as a legal road goes all the way to the mall doors, rather than just the formed bit past the Toyworld off Broderick road...

Its on the councils webmap too...

https://gis.wcc.govt.nz/LocalMaps/Viewer/?map=d576440c16dd48628d96839f8f0c90be

The question is has the council done a deal with the mall owners, that allows them to operate a carpark (and presumably enforce it) on the roadway.... only the WCC could answer that...

Yes, that's the one - the area in purple in the map below is public road.

I too wonder if the council has done a deal with the mall, and if that would be possible without revoking it's status as a public road

kingdragonfly

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#2156733 9-Jan-2019 07:39

There's no exact word on how much Wellington's double decker bus cost, but 50 buses cost in the "tens of millions", so you'd guess it's about a million a piece.

Obviously building more roads is either not practical or too expensive.

So would it make some sense to "close the loop" and provide more "park and ride" spaces outside the CBD, if we want to encourage commuters?

Of the 55 spaces at Johnsonville, probably a number are taken by residents using it as long-term parking.

The new Johnsonville library site really missed an opportunity. It is literally across the street from the train and bus hub.

They could have built a lot of Park N ride space, but instead the library will add 5 spaces more than the previous library, and these spaces are limited to a few hours.

ajw

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#2156747 9-Jan-2019 08:18

jpoc:

wellygary:

its claimed there are "plans" for a better hub ( and maybe more parking) once the mall redevelopment happens, but given this redevelopment has been promised for well over 10 years and nothing has happened.... don't hold your breath......

Mall owners and park and ride operators across the whole world are reluctant to spend money on car parking at the moment. They are watching developments in Phoenix with great interest.

In the US, malls that are in construction or under development are being configured with temporary car parking only with the intention to reconfigure the parking buildings as offices in a few years time.

There are numerous articles and video's on youtube that malls are dying in popularity in the US. I have not done any market research pertaining to other countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_mall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBmvMpZCNJg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oooVC3zfDc8

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/fashion/94084484/if-malls-are-dying-theyve-been-at-deaths-door-for-a-while

nickb800

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#2156753 9-Jan-2019 08:30

kingdragonfly:

There's no exact word on how much Wellington's double decker bus cost, but 50 buses cost in the "tens of millions", so you'd guess it's about a million a piece.

Obviously building more roads is either not practical or too expensive.

So would it make some sense to "close the loop" and provide more "park and ride" spaces outside the CBD, if we want to encourage commuters?

Of the 55 spaces at Johnsonville, probably a number are taken by residents using it as long-term parking.

The new Johnsonville library site really missed an opportunity. It is literally across the street from the train and bus hub.

They could have built a lot of Park N ride space, but instead the library will add 5 spaces more than the previous library, and these spaces are limited to a few hours.

Greater Wellington/NZTA doesn't buy buses so not sure what that's got to do with it. Presumably they tendered for double decker buses on high density routes as it's cheaper per passenger than normal single decker buses.

Park and ride does help with public transport patronage, but you can't ignore the high cost to develop parking. Simple ground level parking, like the current parking around the mall, can cost $5,000 per space plus land costs (see Waikanae park and ride). There's of course not much free land in Johnsonville and the mall probably isn't a willing seller either. Multistorey parking is more like $25,000 per park, and if there are height restrictions on the library site then adding car parking would reduce the size of the library. That money could go towards better PT (more frequency, more routes) connecting residents to train stations or high frequency buses.

Edit: Source to the $25k per park cost https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2016/09/05/park-and-ride-not-really-a-no-brainer/

wellygary

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#2156775 9-Jan-2019 09:23

nickb800:

Multistorey parking is more like $25,000 per park, and if there are height restrictions on the library site then adding car parking would reduce the size of the library. That money could go towards better PT (more frequency, more routes) connecting residents to train stations or high frequency buses.

Edit: Source to the $25k per park cost https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2016/09/05/park-and-ride-not-really-a-no-brainer/

25K per space is cheap for a multi story, The new 1000 place building at Wellington Airport cost 70 million, that's 70K per space (although its probably slightly less as some space has been set aside for a bus stop , bike parking etc...

MurrayM

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#2156794 9-Jan-2019 09:43

jpoc:

Mall owners and park and ride operators across the whole world are reluctant to spend money on car parking at the moment. They are watching developments in Phoenix with great interest.

What's happening in Phoenix?

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