Ditch Road User Charges?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Ditch Road User Charges?

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438 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2283872 26-Jul-2019 09:46

Lias:

Not just EV's, cyclists need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the roads or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them cycleways, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time riding a push bike cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

We don't? Then what was those roading and transport lines for on my rates bill I just got?

wellygary

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Uber Geek

#2283874 26-Jul-2019 09:50

Linuxluver:

But the RUC regime ONLY exists because of this exemption. I think it should be done away with. Put the same tax on all diesel.

No, that is not the only reason RUC exists,

Your argument would have some validity if the RUC rate for all vehicles was the same, but it is not,

Heavy vehicles pay more RUC/km than light vehicles due to them having a more significant impact ( more damage etc).

An 18 tonne truck pays ~$400 /1000km, vs $72/1000 km for a light diesel car ( and soon to be EV)

If you were to go to a per litre tax base you would have to charge different vehicles different diesel prices, based on weight, which would difficult to enforce

Per KM road pricing is here to stay, and I would guess that in the future it will be expanded, not reduced...

jfanning

438 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2283876 26-Jul-2019 09:52

Linuxluver:

Road User Charges are only required because diesel is largely tax free as far as road costs are concerned. This exemption is almost entirely intended for farmers who use diesel as a fuel on the farm and claim they don't use the roads. Well....the law does allow them to use the roads in an incidental way, to get from paddock to paddock, etc.

But the RUC regime ONLY exists because of this exemption. I think it should be done away with. Put the same tax on all diesel.

Farmers drive their tractors on the roads all the time....and for considerable distances....and often at peak times, obstructing other traffic by going very slowly.

Isn't the lack of RUC on diesel because it makes it a lot easier to deal with than the two colour system they have in the UK and in Ireland? What costs more to admin, cops constantly stopping people to check the colour of their fuel, or just making people buy RUC?

Also, what about boats, diesel heating etc, there is a reason they don't have a RUC. And then there are all the EV owners that drive around doing a lot more distance than the tractors on short journeys, why are they exempt?

maoriboy

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#2283877 26-Jul-2019 09:55

nzkc:

maoriboy:

I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

Errr.... none.

Hmm maybe I didn't write that particularly well. What I was trying to say is that if RUC was imposed at the pump as suggested by the OP, this would unfairly charge boat users. I obviously need more caffeine!

wally22

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#2283878 26-Jul-2019 09:56

Lias:

Not just EV's, cyclists need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the roads or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them cycleways, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time riding a push bike cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

Lets start taxing pedestrians too. We will all have to carry pedometers.

Kyanar

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#2283881 26-Jul-2019 10:03

Lias:

Not just EV's, cyclists need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the roads or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them cycleways, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time riding a push bike cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

Uh, they pay quite a lot into roads actually. Roads are built by your local council out of rates funding, not NZTA. State Highways are built by NZTA but NZTA is funded by the Consolidated Fund - every dollar the government gets, even petrol taxes, gets dumped into this giant slush fund and the government dips into it for whatever they need be it a road, hospital, or school. How it's divvied up is actually way more complex than I describe but the basic premise is that.

Meaning you are way off base in your anti-cyclist rant.

MikeB4

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#2283882 26-Jul-2019 10:10

Lias:

Not just EV's, cyclists need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the roads or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them cycleways, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time riding a push bike cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

So cyclists don't own motor vehicles or earn any income that is taxed or have ACC levies applied.

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nzkc

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#2283885 26-Jul-2019 10:14

maoriboy:

Hmm maybe I didn't write that particularly well. What I was trying to say is that if RUC was imposed at the pump as suggested by the OP, this would unfairly charge boat users. I obviously need more caffeine!

Ahh right. Yes agreed. And this is why I think, ultimately, RUC will be split out entirely. There'll be furore about that no doubt though I think less than other options. People will say things like "we've already paid for the roads why do we have to pay again?" - thing is...you're already paying "again". The simple way to look at it is that RUC are actually road tolls. Which is why I find separate road tolls a little bit irksome.

eracode

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#2283891 26-Jul-2019 10:31

maoriboy:
I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

That SUCs - seaway user charges 😀

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Varkk

643 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2283934 26-Jul-2019 10:36

BlueShift:

Not just EV's, rugby players need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the parks or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them stadiums, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time playing rugby cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

If they are playing for a club and pay subs then they are paying ACC levies as these are paid by the clubs. If they are a professional player then they pay a levy from their income they receive for playing.

wellygary

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#2284019 26-Jul-2019 10:52

maoriboy:

I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

Only Commercial Vessels are eligible for RUC exemptions,

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/licensing-rego/road-user-charges/ruc-rates-and-transaction-fees/excise-duty-refunds/

Additionally in Auckland boat owners get pinged by the regional fuel tax, there is no exemption for private ( non commercial) boats

nickb800

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#2284033 26-Jul-2019 11:15

Varkk:

If they are playing for a club and pay subs then they are paying ACC levies as these are paid by the clubs.

Sports clubs don't pay ACC levies for their members - they only deduct it from employees. In theory sports players contribute to ACC coverage of their sports injuries through the ACC levy on their earnings.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2284034 26-Jul-2019 11:17

maoriboy:

I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

To flick this argument on it's head, I have a gas guzzling V8 boat and it annoys me that I am paying for roads every time I fill up. I already pay my way when I tow my boat on my registered trailer behind my registered and RUC'd SUV.

I'd much prefer to be able to claim that fuel tax back, or at least divert it to water safety/Coastguard (who get bugger all govt funding).

frankv

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#2284117 26-Jul-2019 12:12

maoriboy:

nzkc:

maoriboy:

I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

Errr.... none.

Hmm maybe I didn't write that particularly well. What I was trying to say is that if RUC was imposed at the pump as suggested by the OP, this would unfairly charge boat users. I obviously need more caffeine!

OTOH, boats do travel on the roads, albeit on trailers.

FYI, aircraft that use mogas (95-octane petrol, same as cars) aren't exempt from the taxes on petrol. I think the rationale is that this offsets the costs of Search & Rescue and CAA.

The same could apply to diesel in boats. I don't know whether petrol-powered boats are exempt any taxes.

tdgeek

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#2284119 26-Jul-2019 12:19

frankv:

maoriboy:

nzkc:

maoriboy:

I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

Errr.... none.

Hmm maybe I didn't write that particularly well. What I was trying to say is that if RUC was imposed at the pump as suggested by the OP, this would unfairly charge boat users. I obviously need more caffeine!

OTOH, boats do travel on the roads, albeit on trailers.

FYI, aircraft that use mogas (95-octane petrol, same as cars) aren't exempt from the taxes on petrol. I think the rationale is that this offsets the costs of Search & Rescue and CAA.

The same could apply to diesel in boats. I don't know whether petrol-powered boats are exempt any taxes.

Makes a lot of sense. It can get way too hard to make it perfect. My lawnmower, my hedgetrimmer, and so on. Keep it simple, whether its simple or complex it still won't be 100% accurate

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