Ditch Road User Charges?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Ditch Road User Charges?

Linuxluver

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#253103 25-Jul-2019 22:59

Road User Charges are only required because diesel is largely tax free as far as road costs are concerned. This exemption is almost entirely intended for farmers who use diesel as a fuel on the farm and claim they don't use the roads. Well....the law does allow them to use the roads in an incidental way, to get from paddock to paddock, etc.

But the RUC regime ONLY exists because of this exemption. I think it should be done away with. Put the same tax on all diesel.

Farmers drive their tractors on the roads all the time....and for considerable distances....and often at peak times, obstructing other traffic by going very slowly.

Night before last I passed a tractor on the Eastern Link toll road, east of Tauranga. This road is 15km long and once on it you have to traverse the entire length of the road.......I assume this tractor paid a toll? But it's just the latest of many, tractors belonging to farm contractors who use the roads daily to get from farm to farm.

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#2283779 26-Jul-2019 00:21

They could always copy the UK system and introduce red diesel, then tax diesel for cars at the pumps the same as petrol.

mattwnz

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#2283780 26-Jul-2019 00:23

They are going to have to use them for electric cars I am guessing, to pay for the roads.

nzkc

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#2283781 26-Jul-2019 00:24

As electric cars become more prevalent I actually think things will go the other way. RUC will come off fuel and be done separately for all vehicles.

mattwnz

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#2283782 26-Jul-2019 00:38

nzkc:

As electric cars become more prevalent I actually think things will go the other way. RUC will come off fuel and be done separately for all vehicles.

Just hope electricity from certain power points doesn't start to get taxed, so we need separate meters for power being used for cars. But almost impossible I think, as many will probably try setting up solar, and some cars will likely have solar charging onto the roof as well as these things become more efficient.

Mattnzl

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#2283804 26-Jul-2019 06:42

nzkc:

As electric cars become more prevalent I actually think things will go the other way. RUC will come off fuel and be done separately for all vehicles.

Agreed. Also having RUC integrated into diesel would mean trucks possibly wouldn't pay enough (I guess depending on how economical on fuel they were compared to their weight/road damage).

sbiddle

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#2283808 26-Jul-2019 07:02

RUC is the future of transport funding. It's something that won't be scrapped, but instead be the future of how transport levies are paid particularly as the % generated by petrol towards the NLTF has reduced due to more economic petrol vehicles on the road and more diesel, EV and hybrids.

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#2283815 26-Jul-2019 07:27

nzkc:

As electric cars become more prevalent I actually think things will go the other way. RUC will come off fuel and be done separately for all vehicles.

Agreed, As more move to Hybrids, EVs & Hydrogen cars the cost of maintaining safe roads doesn't reduce. All it means is there's less tax coming in to pay for them.
IMO the tax should be removed from the pump and RUCs be applied to every car.

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heapsort

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#2283821 26-Jul-2019 07:41

I would think ditching RUC for an additional at-the-pump tax for diesel would not be feasible, because heavy diesel vehicles cause road damage disproportionate to their fuel consumption. But keeping the current situation of at-the-pump for petrol and per-kilometre for diesel will become more problematic over time. RUC for all vehicles, petrol included, makes more sense.

Personally, I'm not too impressed by the possibility of the RUC exemption for EVs and PHEVs expiring in 2021. It is a modest but reasonable incentive for these vehicles, and PHEV drivers in particular will be "double charged" (paying RUC and petrol tax) for some of their road use. For me it's a small amount (switched to a PHEV 18 months ago, 160 litres of petrol used) and I realise a rebate scheme for PHEV drivers to claim some of their petrol tax back would be impractical, but I dislike double charging on principle. I may well switch to an EV by then anyway, but for now the PHEV is performing as expected, using only 10-15% as much petrol as the vehicle it replaced.

floydbloke

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#2283824 26-Jul-2019 07:50

Linuxluver:

Road User Charges are only required because diesel is largely tax free as far as road costs are concerned. This exemption is almost entirely intended for farmers who use diesel as a fuel on the farm and claim they don't use the roads. Well....the law does allow them to use the roads in an incidental way, to get from paddock to paddock, etc.

But the RUC regime ONLY exists because of this exemption. I think it should be done away with. Put the same tax on all diesel.
...

😉sounds a bit to me like our Geekzone EVangelist is a little concerned he may have to start paying to use the roads soon😉 Just like the rest of us filthy, polluting ICE users.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

Lias

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#2283827 26-Jul-2019 08:11

Not just EV's, cyclists need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the roads or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them cycleways, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time riding a push bike cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

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BlueShift

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#2283834 26-Jul-2019 08:29

Lias:

Not just EV's, cyclists need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the roads or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them cycleways, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time riding a push bike cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

Not just EV's, rugby players need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the parks or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them stadiums, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time playing rugby cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

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#2283837 26-Jul-2019 08:48

@Linuxluver - it would be interesting to hear your thoughts as to how long you think the current RUC exemption for EVs should continue, and, should it continue into the future, how the cost of building and maintaining roading infrastructure will be met in the future - where it is inevitable the proportion of electric vehicles will continue to grow, resulting in a lower proportion of vehicles contributing towards to this cost?

One our own cars is an EV, so I personally gain from the current arrangements, but equally I see it's not sustainable. Whether this is solved by having EV owners pay RUCs or by other means, change will be needed.

RUCs also provide the opportunity to take other factors into account, such as the level of pollution created by the vehicle. So an EV could pay less to reflect its lower footprint, thereby still provide some level of differentiation between vehicle classes and financial incentive to have an EV while still contributing towards that necessary infrastructure.

My own car is a diesel (balanced out by my wife's Leaf!), and I've no particular issue with paying RUCs. My bigger issue is how crude the system currently is in that I pay the same in my car as a small truck, or the same as a huge German SUV with an engine twice the size of mine, so given the RUCs are charged per km we're all paying the same despite the greater level of road damage or emissions. A well-constructed RUCs system could resolve these issues.

Lias

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#2283861 26-Jul-2019 09:21

BlueShift:

Lias:

Not just EV's, cyclists need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the roads or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them cycleways, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time riding a push bike cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

Not just EV's, rugby players need to be taxed as well. They pay nothing towards using the parks or all these expensive, controversial, hate by everyone but them stadiums, and they pay no ACC levies. Motorcyclists have to pay extortionate ACC levies because of their alleged high risk, it's high time playing rugby cost $2000/year in ACC levies too.

I appreciate you are being sarcastic, but I'm actually entirely on board with that if ACC want to target groups by risk. Right now motorcyclists are uniquely and unfairly targeted by ACC, I'm quite happy to see huge fees chucked on every risky activity if that's what they want to do..

maoriboy

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#2283865 26-Jul-2019 09:31

I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

nzkc

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#2283870 26-Jul-2019 09:44

maoriboy:

I wonder what RUC is imposed on the boaties whose engines use diesel? Should it be fair that they pay RUC even though their boats are not even on the road?

Errr.... none.

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