Advice / help wanted - Is a 8 Bar, 87K 2013 Nissan Leaf worth buying?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Advice / help wanted - Is a 8 Bar, 87K 2013 Nissan Leaf worth buying?

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Scott3

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#2698725 27-Apr-2021 12:52

Batman:

timbosan:
In Auckland - and yeah the motorway thing was new to me, it's seems way more than twice the battery usage of 50 kph. I am Auckland City (rates area for those out of Auckland) and can drive 99% of places without going on the motorway (and often its quicker to stay OFF the motorways!)

KM per year - Good question - I am guessing only around 5,000-ish as I don't drive to work. Its only used 'as needed' so shopping, trips across town, appointments, etc. which are maybe 2-3 times a week.

I have off street parking and was thinking of getting a 'caravan' plug outside to charge it (no garage or carport). I know that fast charging all the time is bad.

Happy to have an EV (it was always a long term plan, I was planning on getting the MG EV next year but that is $48k). Range issue is the biggest concern - or more accurately how bad will the range be in 2-3 years.

this is news to me.

so if you buy a EV that says "300km range" that means 300km in town but if you want to drive to another place 250km away you need to buy EV with 500km range?

good golly

It is correct that EV's are substantially more efficient at slower speeds. Driving slower is the biggest thing one can do to increase their range.

But most of the rating cycles consider a mix of uses.

NZ open road speed limit of 100km/h (110km roads are fairly rare), means out use case here isn't too onerous compared to some parts of Europe and the USA. Pretty easy to beat EPA rated range in real world NZ conditions while driving normal open road speeds. This is true on both the i3 & nissan leaf (battery health corrected) I have owned.

There are various cycles EV's are rated on:

EPA (USA): Pretty good for NZ conditions, quite easy to beat (64kWh kona pre update gets 415km range)

WLTP (europe): Pritty good for NZ conditions, Can be reached with gentile driving even at normal speeds (64kWh kona pre update gets 449km, 484km post update)

NEDC (Europe): Very optimistic, wildly so on some car models (64kWh kona pre update 500km). As an example of a car with a junk rating, the 2011 leaf gets an EPA range of 117km, and a NEDC range of 175km.

A Kona can do over 1000km if you drive it at 30km/h on the flat:

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/news/hyundai-kona-electric-sets-range-record-of-over-620-miles-on-single-charge-41597389288083.html

Scott3

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#2698728 27-Apr-2021 13:05

timmmay: Do electric cars not need any maintenance? Surely the mechanical parts still need to be checked and maintained.

They still do, but it is much less.

Obviously stuff like suspension, tires, cabin filter, wiper blades, bulbs, breaks are all the same (but regen breaking does reduce break wear somewhat). Plus there is a reduction gear oil that needs checked and changed at a high mileage.

But there is no engine oil, transmission fluid, spark plugs, engine air filter, cam belt/chain, accessory belt.

Here is what Nissan USA recommends:

https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2019/2019-LEAF-service-maintenance-guide.pdf

I think the frequency they are changing the break fluid is excessive...

By all accounts Nissan leaf's are accepted as being cheaper to maintain, than similar petrol cars.

The $500 savings is obviously depends on what car it is replacing.

My 2006 lexus SUV seems to cost $2000+ in maintenance a year to keep on the road. Have owned roughly 3 years, and the following big ticket items: Spark plugs ($600), rear break rotors +pads ($1k+), front lower Suspension arms due to bushing failures ($1.5k), Radator ($1k+), cambelt & water pump ($1.5k+), A set of tires, plus all the little stuff.

A 2013 leaf is modern enough it is unlikely to need suspension components, radiators etc replaced...

timbosan

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#2699134 28-Apr-2021 10:30

So I am quite keen based on the information in this thread, one big remaining question is, has anyone actually done a battery swap on a Leaf? If so did it go well? Feedback?

afe66

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#2699142 28-Apr-2021 11:04

From memory blue cars has done one and posted on facebook.

There are a number of companies in uk that do replacements but the issue is one of availability of batteries which currently only come from wrecked leafs.

Unsurprisingly nissan would rather use a new battery in a new car than sell battery packs for upgrades

Uk lucky in that they can source batteries from European wreckers. From watching YouTube videos, it only takes a couple of hours maybe even less to do the swaps.

The technical issues involve different shaped plug between different types battery packs and firmware issues involving communication between the battery software and the leaf main computer. But there are companies that produce off the shelf solutions for this

Scott3

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#2699155 28-Apr-2021 11:48

timbosan:

So I am quite keen based on the information in this thread, one big remaining question is, has anyone actually done a battery swap on a Leaf? If so did it go well? Feedback?

The biggest issue is that new replacement pack's aren't available in a cost effective way. Auto makers don't really want to sell packs when that pack could be put in a car which would either collect subsidies, of avoid emissions fines in much of the world.

As such the supply of packs comes from other crashed leaf's, and there arn't enough of them relative to the number of 2011 leaf's with sub 50% SOH batteries. As such they command fairly high prices.

https://evsenhanced.com/services/hv-battery-swaps-and-upgrades/

zenourn

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#2700352 1-May-2021 09:36

Scott3:

8 Bars puts your car in the 5th percentile for poor battery health. Price should reflect this. (note data is nearly a year old, so it might not be this bad based on current data):

https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/

This has been on my list to update, now done. With the updated data, 8 bars for a 2013 Nissan Leaf is now in the 25th percentile.

Couple of observations with this update:

- Had to increase the y-axis limits, the older cars are starting to show a reasonable decline in SoH/Bars. There is a question of whether degradation increases over time, so is one potential factor to take into account when purchasing any car that already shows large amount of capacity loss.

- Now have enough data to include the 2019 40 kWh Leafs. In general the 40 kWh battery pack seems to have a modest initial drop in SoH but then appears to be relatively stable, don't see much of a difference in the 2017 versus 2019 years. About to work on an update to my 24 kWh/30 kWh SoH preprint so will include more detailed analysis on this there, but maybe the 40 kWh battery is looking more promising in terms of capacity loss over time.

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