Advice / help wanted - Is a 8 Bar, 87K 2013 Nissan Leaf worth buying?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Advice / help wanted - Is a 8 Bar, 87K 2013 Nissan Leaf worth buying?

timbosan

2142 posts

Uber Geek

#284511 27-Apr-2021 08:48

Hi all,

I have been following electric cars for a while, and have been reading the "General" Leaf thread on and off for a while. Now I have an opportunity to buy a 2013 Leaf S from a dealer, but have some reservations and hoped for some advise. I took it for a few test drives over the long weekend, including to Sylvia park (to charge it) and to Greenlane (to fast charge it). I don't drive to work - this is will be a run about car, but the ONLY car. I live in Auckland.

* Is 8 bars too low to consider buying? I charged it at Sylvia Park and it got up to 90KM range. But when I charged it at Greenlane fast charger, even though it got to 100% charge the range stuck at 75, what gives? Is that a problem?

* 87,000km. Does that matter on a Leaf? I know of the Scottish(?) Leaf taxi that has supposedly done 300,000km

* I am struggling to find details on trim level. Its an S, so that 2 airbags, right???, It does fast and normal chargers, a reversing camera, heated seats and the dash is in Japanese, but this can be changed, correct?

* Anything else I should look for? I have read about the 12v battery problem, but how do I check that? I don't have Leaf Spy.

* The charging cable has the 'brick' part wrapped in bubble wrap (I have NOT used this), why????? Its cable-tied at both ends like its waterproof - I guess the previous owner charged it outdoors? Is this safe???

Many thank to all :-)

1 | 2

8912 posts

Uber Geek

#2698599 27-Apr-2021 09:09

The range estimate will change depending on how it is driven - drive it hard and the expected range for that charge will drop. S is the lowest trim level of Jap imports. Probably still in bubble wrap because it hasn't been used, or too lazy to unwrap - does that mean it's always been rapid charged (not as good for the battery)?

Delphinus

611 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2698609 27-Apr-2021 09:25

https://samholford.github.io/leafguide/ has some info that might be useful, including a table of trim levels.

timbosan

2142 posts

Uber Geek

#2698611 27-Apr-2021 09:27

RunningMan:

The range estimate will change depending on how it is driven - drive it hard and the expected range for that charge will drop. S is the lowest trim level of Jap imports. Probably still in bubble wrap because it hasn't been used, or too lazy to unwrap - does that mean it's always been rapid charged (not as good for the battery)?

Thanks - yes I notice that motorway driving really kills the battery. And yes, I knew S is the lowest model, but does have the advantage of being able to replace the head-unit without issue (which is still the originally Japanese one).

I dont know the history - the dealer admitted he knows nothing about electric cars. I do know it was previously sold by 2 Cheap Cars, that's it.

wellygary

8260 posts

Uber Geek

#2698636 27-Apr-2021 09:50

The big thing you have not mentioned is the price,

A quick search on trademe for 2013 Leafs indicates the price range of similar vehicles is between 8-9K..

afe66

3181 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2698662 27-Apr-2021 10:12

Where do you live ?
- I assume auckland. Be aware driving 100km per hour on motor ways uses battery much more than twice 50km h...
How many km per year do you do?
Whats normal driving pattern? Ie to and from work and then stay at home vrs get home change and head out again to some event?
Do you have off street parking where you can charge easily?
Do you REALLY want an ev and are happy to deal with range issues...

When I get home ill try to give you stats on a 2013 leaf according to flipthefleet with regards to ave stats and confidence intervals.

My 2014 leaf has 87% capacity and probably does 100km of round town driving in summer. Winter driving with heater etc drops efficency by 20%. (Dunedin)

Personally I would want more battery especially if live in auckland where I couldn't imagine not using motorways (previously spent holidays in auckland).

timbosan

2142 posts

Uber Geek

#2698683 27-Apr-2021 11:30

wellygary:

The big thing you have not mentioned is the price,

A quick search on trademe for 2013 Leafs indicates the price range of similar vehicles is between 8-9K..

Sorry, I only JUST got the pricing today. $5000, but NO warranty as the dealer would sell it to me at his cost (he's my neighbor, it needs a really good groom, etc.).

timbosan

2142 posts

Uber Geek

#2698691 27-Apr-2021 11:37

afe66: Where do you live ?
- I assume auckland. Be aware driving 100km per hour on motor ways uses battery much more than twice 50km h...
How many km per year do you do?
Whats normal driving pattern? Ie to and from work and then stay at home vrs get home change and head out again to some event?
Do you have off street parking where you can charge easily?
Do you REALLY want an ev and are happy to deal with range issues...

When I get home ill try to give you stats on a 2013 leaf according to flipthefleet with regards to ave stats and confidence intervals.

My 2014 leaf has 87% capacity and probably does 100km of round town driving in summer. Winter driving with heater etc drops efficency by 20%. (Dunedin)

Personally I would want more battery especially if live in auckland where I couldn't imagine not using motorways (previously spent holidays in auckland).

In Auckland - and yeah the motorway thing was new to me, it's seems way more than twice the battery usage of 50 kph. I am Auckland City (rates area for those out of Auckland) and can drive 99% of places without going on the motorway (and often its quicker to stay OFF the motorways!)

KM per year - Good question - I am guessing only around 5,000-ish as I don't drive to work. Its only used 'as needed' so shopping, trips across town, appointments, etc. which are maybe 2-3 times a week.

I have off street parking and was thinking of getting a 'caravan' plug outside to charge it (no garage or carport). I know that fast charging all the time is bad.

Happy to have an EV (it was always a long term plan, I was planning on getting the MG EV next year but that is $48k). Range issue is the biggest concern - or more accurately how bad will the range be in 2-3 years.

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

timmmay

20499 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2698693 27-Apr-2021 11:41

I was wondering the other day if third parties do / will supply Leaf battery packs, particularly low to moderate capacity packs for people who just do the occasionally round town trip. Many people don't need 200+km of range.

timbosan

2142 posts

Uber Geek

#2698701 27-Apr-2021 11:50

timmmay:

I was wondering the other day if third parties do / will supply Leaf battery packs, particularly low to moderate capacity packs for people who just do the occasionally round town trip. Many people don't need 200+km of range.

This is something I would also like to know - there must be an increasing number of wrecked Leaf's that have good battery packs. Is there anyone in NZ that does battery swaps?

Batman

Mad Scientist
29717 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2698702 27-Apr-2021 11:51

timbosan:
In Auckland - and yeah the motorway thing was new to me, it's seems way more than twice the battery usage of 50 kph. I am Auckland City (rates area for those out of Auckland) and can drive 99% of places without going on the motorway (and often its quicker to stay OFF the motorways!)

KM per year - Good question - I am guessing only around 5,000-ish as I don't drive to work. Its only used 'as needed' so shopping, trips across town, appointments, etc. which are maybe 2-3 times a week.

I have off street parking and was thinking of getting a 'caravan' plug outside to charge it (no garage or carport). I know that fast charging all the time is bad.

Happy to have an EV (it was always a long term plan, I was planning on getting the MG EV next year but that is $48k). Range issue is the biggest concern - or more accurately how bad will the range be in 2-3 years.

this is news to me.

so if you buy a EV that says "300km range" that means 300km in town but if you want to drive to another place 250km away you need to buy EV with 500km range?

good golly

timmmay

20499 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2698708 27-Apr-2021 11:56

timbosan:

This is something I would also like to know - there must be an increasing number of wrecked Leaf's that have good battery packs. Is there anyone in NZ that does battery swaps?

Google found this Christchurch company.

Scott3

3945 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2698712 27-Apr-2021 12:03

In short, it is only worth it if its really cheap.

8 Bars puts your car in the 5th percentile for poor battery health. Price should reflect this. (note data is nearly a year old, so it might not be this bad based on current data):

https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/

8 bars indicates (roughly) a 60% to 66.25% State of health (SOH) battery. (you should verify this via leafspy as the bars lag actual health by weeks sometimes) - Also want to check that the pack isn't massively out of balance due to a week cell or two.

equates to a 78km to 86km range (in good conditions). Calculate this number by 130 times SOH... Don't trust the km's displayed on the screen - this is refereed to as the "guess o meter", and is regarded as not being very accurate.

If you charge to 80% (easier on the battery), and keep a 20km reserve, 78km turns into 62.4km....

I would expect the battery to continue to decay at 5 percentage points a year. Ensure that you will still have enough range for your needs even with the SOH say 15 or 20 percentage points below what it is now (if you plan to keep the car for 3 - 4 years).

Basically ignore the mileage on the car. SOH is the key parameter for buying leaf's.

As per the other Nissan leaf post, when SOH gets down around or below 45%, there is increased risk in a cell failing an needing replacement even if the pack is well balanced.

Also note that Low SOH leaf's fast charge quite slowly so not ideal for an application that will see a lot of fast charging.

If the car is very cheap, and you are going to do big km's in it (say 45km each way to work, charging at both ends), then it is an amazing deal. Basically treat the car as a disposable, and run up enough fuel / maintenance savings in the next 4 years to pay it completly off...

However if you can get a 2014+ (excl the nz new cars) you should, the batteries have a different chemistry which only decays about 3% points a year, rather than 5%. Extends the vehicle's useful lifespan quite a few years...

To add to confusion, that leaf guide posted (and may trade me adverts) incorrectly refer to. Correct is as per wikipida:

Gen1:
- ZEO (pre refresh. Big plastic thing in boot, electronic parking brake, High spec level: LED headlights, lots of airbags etc)
- AZE0 (post refresh. Larger boot, foot parking break, Highly variable spec, avaibable on 24kWh & 30kWh)
Gen2:
- ZE1 (Current shape. 40kWh & 62kWh available)

"S" spec 2013 means you are looking at a AZE0. Lowest spec. Notably omits a heat pump (uses resistance heating instead, using 3x the power), and "B" mode (engages stronger regenerative breaking when lifting off the accelerator - Still has this regen ability, but gets blended when using the foot break). One positive thing is it has a DIN standard head unit without climate integration, meaning you can swap the head unit if you want.

ex-japan in the AZE0 chassies code, side airbags appear to have been a fairly rare option. Basically unrelated to spec. If you want side airbags you will need to find a car that has them, and the do command a significant price premium.

Scott3

3945 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2698718 27-Apr-2021 12:27

timbosan:

Sorry, I only JUST got the pricing today. $5000, but NO warranty as the dealer would sell it to me at his cost (he's my neighbor, it needs a really good groom, etc.).

That is very cheap.

Cheapist leaf on trademe (buy now) is a 2011 ZE0 with 7 bars asking $5300. Cheapest 2014 is $8500 ONO. Its 8 bars, and the mid "S" spec...

If we say a older petrol car costs $500 more a year to maintain, and uses 10L/100km in city traffic, assuming free electricity, it would only take 2 years of 10,000km to pay the $5k off in running costs. (Might need a few extra months, or a little more annual running mileage to cover the cost of power). And of course the residual won't be zero.

If this fits you use case I would snap it up (subject to a leaf spy check).

timmmay

20499 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2698720 27-Apr-2021 12:35

Do electric cars not need any maintenance? Surely the mechanical parts still need to be checked and maintained.

timbosan

2142 posts

Uber Geek

#2698721 27-Apr-2021 12:44

Scott3:

In short, it is only worth it if its really cheap.

8 Bars puts your car in the 5th percentile for poor battery health. Price should reflect this. (note data is nearly a year old, so it might not be this bad based on current data):

https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/

Very, very nice response, lots of useful information here, many thanks! Quick calculations on these numbers sees range drop to around 60-70km in 5 years. Which gives me something solid to base decisions on.

1 | 2